 Jenni
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 2:30 AM
I think Martin is in charge of results and he's doing the Coast to Coast now. Maybe some tentative results could be put up with just finishing times and not worry about the splits which have to be sorted out with all the loops etc?
In case they don't come for a while, Al, here to satisfy your curiosity is what I know but that's not much seeing we did't get to see many results either.
I'm pretty sure Julian Dent took out the chasing start (NZers order Ross, Aaron, Rob J, Mike...??) some Australians in amongst them but I don't know how or where! Carsten (who was in front of Ross from the sprint the night before) didn't run as he was looking after Kaia who spewed all the night before. Not sure if Heli or Hanny won, Amber was third I think and best NZer, then Tan and Tineke, me, Sara, Lizzie. Again Aussies in there Jo up with Tan, Anna Quayle up there as well and Anna Sheldon in front of me.
No real idea on the sprint. I think Ross may have won the men's at least he was top NZer. And I think Amber was top NZ women not sure what Tan did. Amber beat half the Australian men, I know that and was only a minute behind Carsten. Heli was sick and didn't run anymore of the races. I'm not sure if Amber beat Hanny or not.
In the loop race again Julian Dent won, Ross 2nd, Mike 3rd, (who ran the last loop together and some of the preceding loops) Tane 4th, Carsten 5th (who did a 5 minute 180 out of the start triangle), Rob J 6th..??? Some Aussies in there somewhere probably. Katherine Ewells (sorry about that spelling?!) won the women's and Penny and Jo were next not quite sure of order. Then me, Lizzie, Amber, Sara. I guess Anna Sheldon was in there somewhere. Tan didn't run.
The relay was a bit of a mess. It was great fun and all that, of course, but there was lots of mispunching, some of it just plain mispunching and some a bit unfair ie Rob J who running first was turning on lots of the sport ident boxes which took a long time to come on and he had people pushing him to take his ident out so that in the end some didn't register. In the end, as far as Superseries teams goes, the team of Brent, Tan and Mark won 15 s in front of the team of Mike, me, Aaron. (The honourable winning team of Rob J, Sara, Carsten were some 20s in front of the actual winning team) Ross, Amber, Karl finished some time before any of these teams but Ross had mispunched on first leg. Another team with Julian Dent running last leg, but I'm not sure who else, won overall I think.
It was really good and orienteering at its best!
This message was edited by Jenni on 8 February 2007, 11:58 AM
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addison
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 6:30 AM
Ross and Amber won the sprint races.
Regarding the relay, no offence intended, but you cannot dare say it was unfair. He didn't wait for the beep, he protested, controller turned it down, other controllers agreed, technical director agreed. Being biased because you are from down South just does not cut it and this really does annoy me as there was a process in place and yeah.
Regarding the relay mispunching of Rob J:
- new SI boxes were used
- new SI boxes do not need to be programmed to wake up and shut down as they stay on all the time, in standby mode however
- the controller ran around as late as physically possible to check they all beeped and to wake up
- the new SI boxes (as I believe) go into standby after 15minutes to preserve battery
- there was nothing else we could have done
- fairness was questioned, it was a mass start for christs sake of course it was fair
- the boxes could not be proved to be in standby, it was just word
- there was 3 mispunches, not just one. One control Rob was seen at, if it had only been one then perhaps we could have made allowances (controllers decision however), but there were 3 which just shows he did not even check the beep or flash. If it doesnt flash then you need to punch manually.
Regarding people pushing him? Why was this not said at the finish? The moment Rob came in he made a comment about punching which basically looked guilty. I can only comment on what I saw.
Basically unless you can suggest a practicle way of avoiding the above, without having someone run and show where the course goes 2 minutes before the start then I would be keen to hear them. Anything else is just plain excuses and like I said before its rather disheartening and in my opinion sore losers.
And yes, Martin has the results all ready to go (excl loops) and is just trying to get internet access to email these to me so I can upload them.
Simon
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Jamie
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 7:04 AM
Full credit to Rob J for a gutsy run, but hey as we have all been learning since the advent of electronic punching you can't just take off without the light and think you will get away with it. I learned it again at Nats last year, DSQed from the sprint.
I'm sure the decision would have been the same at any international event.
Thanks Simon - and take a chill pill bro ;-)
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AlanHorn
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 7:13 AM
"- the new SI boxes (as I believe) go into standby after 15minutes to preserve battery"
The default from the factory is for them to go into standby after 2 hours. That time can be programmed even longer (or shorter).
They can also be programmed into the "wake up at x am" and "sleep at y pm" if need be - but thats a pain in the arse for multiday events.
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Martin
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 7:26 AM
the boxes were set by default to go to sleep after 1hr from memory. We all know the rules.
Results for all events (except loops) will be up on web shortly. Loops will have to wait until after coast to coast, so please, be patient there!
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Jenni
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 7:41 AM
Sorry I should have used the phrase "in my opinion" before I began that (I thought that was assumed on maptalk).
It is in my opinion "a bit unfair" for any one person to have to put their SI in for quite a lot longer than others in a race especially a mass start race. I didn't say the organizers were wrong I just said who I thought the honourable winners were, being the first team that had held their idents for the normal time, and often longer, in all of the correct boxes. The fact that the relay was a bit of a mess can be mainly put down to real mispunching, not at all a fault of the organizers but NZers general inexperience in relays and not being used to having controls placed close together.
Also, in my opinion, if it is in fact 2 hours before the boxes go into standby, I don't think there is any excuse for them not to have all been activated about an hour before the start. I have certainly never heard of competitors having to activate boxes in any international event.
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addison
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 9:10 AM
Results from Monday are now up.
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addison
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 9:32 AM
What is quite interesting is that in the results over 1/2 the mp's are from "elites". Perhaps running too fast and allowing the pressure to get to them, or perhaps its because this is just a sign that doing orange relays at nationals has meant no-one is used to actually having to read their map in relays!
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jeffg
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 9:48 AM
Of course the boxes were programmed to take longer to register Southerly Storm SI cards...
I agree with Jenni's comment about NZers' general inexperience in relays, but that can be put right by holding more of them. Outstanding series of events thanks. More than one experienced orienteer did a 180 in the loop race BTW. The start/pivot was cleverly positioned in the middle of the tree-lined fenceline so there was an element of symmetry that was confusing when orientating the maps. That's my story anyway.
I might take issue with one small detail in the programme which was was the claim of "a New Zealand first" use of a double pivot control course structure for the chasing start event at Waihora. The Great Day O at Woodhill last year had a double pivot structure on the first map, although in that case there were no additional controls between the two pivots. Many of the organisers ran in that event but they may have blotted it from their memory. Understandably so.
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thomasr
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Posted: 8 February 2007, 2:36 PM
no doubt rob j had a great run, and yes it does kinda suck when you get dsqd. But he didnt punch, people should stop moaning about pathetic little details. We should all be thanking simon, martin, greg and all the others for running such a great event! Thanks guys gotta be the best weekend of o i have ever done in nz
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nick
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Posted: 9 February 2007, 2:22 AM
agree
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Greg
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Posted: 9 February 2007, 5:03 PM
Facts
> the boxes were woken up, being asleep is an excuse that is being used not a proven problem
> one of Rob J's no-punches was on a split, the first 2 to the other splits had no problems
> Rules state you are responsible for making sure the boxes register, if they dont you punch the clipper on your map
If this had happened in the world champs do you think the controller there would give a toss about you having to wait longer than you feel necessary for it to flash… NO
That is crap to claim a honourable victory, no matter whose option it is, and frankly I'm a bit pissed that it has made the relay sound like shit when all it would have taken is another split second from the runners to either wait or check codes, oing fundamentals really.
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Alistair
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Posted: 9 February 2007, 9:50 PM
Exception to the rule: Your name is Troy! ;-)
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Jenni
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Posted: 10 February 2007, 4:00 AM
Sorry Greg, I didn't intend for the relay to sound like shit. When I said mess I meant the results in that I didn't know what they were and I was trying to give them to Al. The relays weren't at all shit, as I did say they were fun. They were great, with good spectator possibilities, good route choice which split the field and route choices to split controls which meant you had to be careful not to just follow etc. That the results were a mess, as I said in my other post, was due to the competitors mispunching. It's completely those who mispunched fault and hopefully they'll learn and not do it in a bigger competition. Yes, Rob J should have waited. It is in my opinion, and some other people's however, but not the controller who is the one that counts, unfair if anyone has to turn the boxes on in a relay.
I was running with Sara's ident which is an old one while mine is new and so noticeably faster. I pulled Sara's out lots of times before it beeped because it's a habit now how long I wait. Of course I did put it in again because it hadn't beeped but it did break my concentration. It's even worse when you're turning the boxes on, that happened to me at the Auckland champs and I didn't realize that they even turned off and thought that it was broken and tried a couple of times and was about to punch the map when it worked. When the same thing happened at several boxes I realized that they must have a turn-off mechanism. I guess it will happen a bit to me now as with split starts I'm often the first starter now. Now I know, it doesn't matter and definitely not worth the organizers running round early or doing complicated programming of the boxes. Except in a mass start race when you're under a bit more stress, I personally, think it would be fairer to make the length of time you waited the same for everyone or at least not much longer that you're used to. As Al mentioned at WOC they did actually reinstate a number of runners in the sprint who had mispunched because of various things that weren't considered fair (like a car being in the way of one control for some competitors and the ruling that some controls were too close.) And I *think* at the world champs if it was true that the boxes weren't turned on then the person turning on them would not have been disqualified.
Anyway, as others said it was a small thing, in what was a fantastic weekend of orienteering and it didn't make the weekend any less fantastic for me (Kaia spewing all one night did slightly!) . And as I said verbally during the weekend lots of times, thank you to all of you for your masses and masses of work in organizing it.
Could I just point out that it does seem a bit ironic that some of those that are often the first to criticise are getting upset when someone merely has a different opionion from them. (I'm not meaning to criticise anyone I'm just saying my opinion is different.)
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addison
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Posted: 10 February 2007, 7:27 AM
Jenni:
Last year in the classic, a box wasn't working. Rob J went to this box, he was the only elite out of the whole field who did not punch this on his map even though he realised the box wasn't working. He was the first person to notify Neil, with the controller Greg allowing him off this one time.
So did he learn his lesson?
What happens in the relay if the boxes weren't working. Would he just keep running? How did he know if the box was even working or not, why didn't he punch it on his map? If anything a lesson should have been learnt, especially when you are a part of a team and its not just about the individual this time. Out of all of this I just hope a lesson for all can be learnt - read your map, check control codes and finally... make sure it beeps. If it doesn't beep, then punch.
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