 addison
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Posted: 30 April 2004, 8:49 AM
And of course, I am biased as I know Tineke a lot more than I know Thomas.
Jamie. I would tend to think along the same lines with W21E running on the Medium Leg, but perhaps restrictions should be placed on having 'two E runners in a relay'. In other words, if a M21E runs first leg, then a W21E cannot run the medium leg. Just a thought.
Rob I fully understand where you are coming from. And yes I accept that. Let me take the time now to thank our supporters and NZOF officals, as for once I must show my recognition at the dedication and work they show towards, and do for the sport I love. I reiterate that the example I gave about the DSquad had absolutely no negative intent behind it or in that fact, and personal intent really.
Greg, if you say that SS events mean nothing, why are the NZSS Champs given A-Badge status?
And who said that by not making the dsquad will just make you stronger and more determined? If anything for some it will just make them question their own orienteering. Get realistic and stop dreaming if you think it makes people stronger by getting rejected.
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Greg
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Posted: 30 April 2004, 9:04 AM
Simon you really need to read what is being said and not make up your own version. I said 1 SS event doesn't show a keen orienteer. You shouldn't be getting more determined weather or not you make a team or squad, if you really start to quesyion your orienteering because you didn't get selected you really need to start looking at why you are orienteering. If you do then you are just another piss weak person that would be better off staying inside reading books Sometimes lifes a bitch deal with it.
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Andrew M
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Posted: 30 April 2004, 9:07 AM
Depends on the person Simon.
Some folk will be discouraged at the first sign of failure. Other take it in their stride, talk to the selectors and the squad coach realise where they need to improve then move forward.
You should be able to handle rejection. Isnt that just part of being a sports person? Ian Thorpe didn't stop and question his ability to swim after his mistake, he just slipped the other fella a couple of grand and moved right along.
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Wetfish
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Posted: 30 April 2004, 9:42 AM
You just keep thinking that Andrew.
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addison
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Posted: 1 May 2004, 11:04 AM
You do it to Jenni, I do it to you. I cant be bothered reading what you have to write Greg as most times its full of shit.
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Dave Mcc
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Posted: 1 May 2004, 1:33 PM
one thing that bothers me about the d squad is that its no longer officially the d squad. Neil will tell you that we are now the junior squad.
But what excatly is the age limit on this "junior squad". Im not sure how old Thomas is but he did show potential at the camp in December. He did run against the likes of Richard and co but failed to beat him. But look a Tineke. After winning the NISS she said she felt stink because Amber trains, ambers good. Imagine the possibilities if we gave the girl a chance.
Andrew took her out training in Taupo. She had to drive from the big t (tauranga) to do so. Who says she isnt a keen orienteerer?
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Neil K
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Posted: 2 May 2004, 2:08 AM
Right.
So what really is the issue here. The New Zealand Orienteering Development Squad (Our official Name) is so popular people are arguaing about getting in. Bloody great.
With regards to the selection issue. I don't think its correct procedure to talk about individual selections.
But...Selecting the squad its not really someone against someone else like selecting a team of three. So we will seperate Thomas and Tinekes arguements into seperate issues.
Thomas showed without doubt he is an extremely talented orienteer by not just winning his grade at Auckland champs but after 3 months of orienteering winning the whole course in what was the most technical race in the north island last year. He then showed his fitness, keenness and skill again at the junior camp were he was streaks in front of everone there...including some coaches already in the squad. So basically I don't even care what your arguements are about Thomas...I suspect that you guys just can't handle new people taking your limelight.
The next issue raised was whether the selectors are baised to those in their region. There are just four squad members from Auckland...not a huge percentage when you consider 1/3 of NZ lives there. Martin - National Champion, Francis - National Champion, Thomas - National Champion, Tim - National Champion.
There is obviously no wrong selection there.
The real problem then is either a) Whining South islanders or b) Other people, especially from the small clubs are not being noticed.
Lets look at b. as it appears to have merit. This year as a new squad coach I was awear of the problem that I didn't know anyone so I ask all existing squad members to let me know who they think should be in the squad. I thought that the kids themselves would know who they are competing against. This was good for most regions but may have missed the upper and lower south Island.
Which brings me to Tineke. Simon you made the selectors aware of Tineke, therefore there was no awareness problems, the only problem is that the selectors decision is different from yours. The selectors decision was based on major events up to that date.
Secondly isn't it great to see Tineke doing so well.
So the issue then comes back to who is missing out on the squad simply because they are not noticed by the selectors...Perhaps there should be a means where clubs can nominate juniors they see as talented. However rest assured if you've done well in more than one major event in the year (thats not a lot of orienteering for a "serious" athlete) then you will be noticed.
Bring back regional short O's and make them chasing starts.
This message was edited by Neil K on 2 May 2004, 10:32 AM
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Dave Mcc
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Posted: 2 May 2004, 7:49 AM
ok, sweet. d squad. its cool
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Wetfish
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Posted: 2 May 2004, 10:28 AM
Lets not name names then, but at least one SI orienteer in there has never been to a national championships. They have been to SI Champs where they did average. What's the selection policy in that?
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Wetfish
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Posted: 2 May 2004, 10:32 AM
Lets not get started on why David is in there.
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Neil K
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Posted: 2 May 2004, 12:35 PM
Wetfish. Piss off.
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Jenni
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Posted: 2 May 2004, 1:17 PM
Apart from the fact that wetfish should stop making trouble and smile (or piss off as Neil suggests!), if he (I think it must be a male) is referring to any of the orienteers that I recommended be included in the development squad then I will inform him why I recommended them. They come regularly to the weekly training sessions that Carsten, Chris and I organize. They run mass start and chasing sprint trainings with the PAPO elites and the PAPO elites are impressed with their ability. This year I offered to help some of the PAPO juniors whose parents weren't attending the national champs with transport etc if this would help them to go. Unfortunately I did this a bit late for some of them who had already made other commitments - it's not always easy to get to the National champs from many locations in NZ but particularly when it's in the other island from where you live.
Chris Forne would have could have more or less been described by Wetfish's statement 18 months ago (I guess you'd been to Nationals when they were held in the SI, Chris but otherwise not? And sometimes your performances at events like SI champs was average, right Chris?!) but with a bit of focus Chris has become one of NZ's best elites. I think Neil is trying to aid this kind of transformation - and it's better to have a wide net full of possibilities. Unfortunately sometimes it appears that some fish are too small to be in the net when actually a little later it becomes clear they are star(fish). Good to promote and recommend these stars but, let's not point at anyone and say they shouldn't be in a squad. It doesn't do anyone any good.
Speaking as someone who's place in the national squad is looking vulnerable but thinks she still fulfills the criteria despite her growing stomach (I am still training at least 30-60 minutes per day and am hoping to represent NZ in the next two years...)!
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Martin
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Posted: 2 May 2004, 1:26 PM
Wetfish, are you bitter and want to cause a fuss because you are not in the D Squad? or is there another reason hidden somewhere? knowing a name might help... or are you afraid because of what you have said?
Get out there and do as much o as you can and get involved in everything, thats the only way i've found to improve.
Orienteering isnt just all about turning up and racing, there's the social side to the sport aswell, the 'orienteering family' as some people say.. people new to the sport may not have found this yet, and i know several examples where enthusiasm has increased. (my bro as an example)
This message was edited by Martin on 2 May 2004, 9:32 PM
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mark
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Posted: 3 May 2004, 1:27 AM
Chris did travel to the North Island for the secondary schools nationals in 1994, but I heard that he just went cause he liked a girl that was going to be there.
I think you guys should lay off wetfish. There is no reason why he should reveal who he is, so that you can then start rubbishing his comments based on his personal experience/history in orienteering. Also some of you probably want to know who he is so that you can start abusing him on a more personal level. Anonominity is one of the beauties of the internet.
This message was edited by mark on 3 May 2004, 9:33 AM
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Wetfish
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Posted: 3 May 2004, 7:37 AM
OK, so one person is saying on the basis of they might be good, then let them in. Therefore, anyone and everyone should get in. What would be the point in that?
Another person says commitment and at least one good result in a Major event is the criteria. What is a "good result"? And doesn't that in some ways contradict the former.
Again it is the case of knowing the right people. (recommendations)
Why should I piss off?
If you can't take it, get a new job. Comes with the territory.
I love orienteering, but some things just aren't right.
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