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Someone got DSQ'd

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 29 April 2004, 3:21 PM  
Sorry wetfish I didn't know elites could run in the SS relays. It is still only 1 relay unless you are at school. AOC isn't a relay it is a team split score O, and sometimes the Wellington one is good but then that is max 2 as I would almost bet a mug of rum that I'm the only person to have run both the WOC and AOC relay in the same year recently.

If the night relays were set more like a relay then they would be but with no gaffling after the 1st (maybe 2nd) leg its not.

People that are too chicken to give crap under their real name should really be the ones to keep their gutless mouths shut.

This message was edited by Greg on 29 April 2004, 4:22 PM

Show Profile  Dave Mcc Posted: 29 April 2004, 4:38 PM  
The thing i like about oing is the good ol mass start. there is nothing like running through the forest of watever knowing there are people waiting for you. The first leg rocks. Everyone knows how wel your doing or how crap (pressure is good). Seconds gay because your all comming and going no one knows wats happening and third..well its all over red rover.

as for gregs idea i think that by providing a red relay it will suggest to the youngins (like me) that the NZOF doesnt want us. We are crap and no body wants to run with a crap person, be honest.

I think on the selections front they got it good but perhaps made more blatant. Talking to a few people at NISS some were amazed that there was actually a school team. Perhaps it would be a good idea to advertise that fact..remember....... your average joe bloggs wont go to the NZOF website to read stuff.

Who cares i cant race till next year anyway so yeah. Good on you greg for brining it up though

Show Profile  addison Posted: 29 April 2004, 6:44 PM  
Marquita is correct in her statement. But let me say something while selection is on the topic a tad.

Personally, I can see a problem with selections at Junior Level. The problem is fairness.

A junior who runs well in the same club as a selector, will find it easier to get into a Junior Team than one that runs well at club events at a smaller club where no selectors are present in the club / area.

This example is not suppose to have any personal intent behind it, it is just an example. The Thomas Reynolds / Tineke Berthelson difference. Both are up and comers, and dont get me wrong... Thomas has proven to be in the D-Squad. But it makes me ask the question, 'is thomas in the dsquad because he comes from NW' and makes me think more seriously about the issue. He got talent identified because of his club running in OY's and his potential. Surely Tineke (comes from a legend running family), had begun to prove herself to the same level yet she was not in the D-Squad. If anything these days, because of the current weakness in depth in the Junior grades for girls, she would be given more importance. Up until Thomas's selection, the only major placing Thomas had at an event was that he won M18A at the Auckland Champs which had no 'real' opposition and he ran against 1 person as I believe. Tineke had done reasonably well, except she was DSQ'd in the NZSS Champs. She took this up with the Nelson Club who undisqualified her at the event, but they never changed the result. As I believe she was about 5th in 2003 before her DSQ, about on-par with Thomas. She has just beaten Amber Morrison to win the Senior Girls at the NISS Champs. Surely she must be included as a fulltime member now.

This is not suppose to have any negative intent behind it, it just proves (In my mind) that coming from a larger club, does have an impact on your selection chances. New Zealand Orienteering is not perfect, even though we try to be. Its just the fact of life that if you know someone better than another, its easier to make decisions about them.

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 29 April 2004, 7:23 PM  
Marquita shouldn't have to defend herself, so I will.

Simon, the problem is not fairness. Despite your statement that your posting was not meant to have negative intent (and I accept that), the very fact that you state "is thomas in the D SQuad because he comes from NW" implies to me your brain considers that selection could be influenced by bias.

I find that disappointing. Thonas is in the D Squad because the selectors think he should be. What club he comes from has nothing to do with it. You think Tineke should be in the D Squad - you may well be right, perhaps she should be - but in the selectors eyes at the time of selection she didnt make the cut. Yes part of the reason may well be a lack of awareness about that particular person but if a person continues to progress and perform the problem will be short-lived.

Selection is by its very nature subjective and part of it comes down to opinion. Disagreements with selection decisions over the years could fill a very large book.

While it is not ideal to have 2 selectors from the same club (or even the same region), the response to adverts for selectors and responses to personal approaches (yes, NZOF does go out of its way to try and find suitable people for roles we need doing) over the last couple of years has been zilch.

If CD and Wellington people are starting to bitch about selections made up in jafaland, get off your butt and find a selector from one of those regions. It would be a hell of a lot more productive than moaning about perceived unfairness.

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 29 April 2004, 8:43 PM  
No I think you are wrong here Simon, remember the D squad was selected at the start of this year on last years results and all you can state is one event ( a S event at that) which to me doesn't show a keen orienteer. Tineke probably should be in the D squad now but thats from this years results after selection was made. Hench the reason the D Squad Coach has the right to invite others from outside the D squad to D squad camps.

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 29 April 2004, 8:54 PM  
man I wouldn't like to be stuck in an elevator with you lot! No wonder I'm hanging around in Invercargill.

Greg, you could do better by thinking a bit and supplying reasons for your assertions...stopping criticising New Zealands most constructive, team spirited and intelligent elite would also improve your karma.

Bring back the chasing start short-o, run W21E's on medium (make all the courses red). Simon I disagreee with you re m18/w21E, I think in a fast well planned relay they are comparable....and if W21E is slightly better then so what??? M21E are slightly better than M35 as well.

Speak up the M21AS's passionate about orienteering

Re the selection issue, sometimes it might be easier to get discovered if you have a selector in your club, or if one in particular disintegrating veteran picks up on your hey hey potential....but thats the bounce of the ball.

Go hard


Show Profile  Wetfish Posted: 29 April 2004, 8:59 PM  
No I think you are wrong here Simon, remember the D squad was selected at the start of this year on last years results and all you can state is one event ( a S event at that) which to me doesn't show a keen orienteer.

So did Thomas.

Anyway, I'll back off now since you're all getting so cut up. It seems one little poke and the whole thing comes crashing down.

Show Profile  Marquita G Posted: 29 April 2004, 9:21 PM  
Jamie, I hope I'm not the "disintegrating veteran" you refer to!!!!!!

Show Profile  Wetfish Posted: 29 April 2004, 9:52 PM  
By the way, that wasn't an apology.

Show Profile  Alistair Posted: 30 April 2004, 12:31 AM  
Marquita, just be thankful you're not disintegrating from the hair down like Jamie ;-)

Show Profile  Andrew M Posted: 30 April 2004, 7:17 AM  
Head honcho, el presidante

Based on this lovely discussion can we somehow make a formal recommendation to the powers above. I presume one of us needs to write a letter to the technical committiee to get the ball rolling?


Show Profile  Keith Posted: 30 April 2004, 8:59 AM  
I'd agree in part with what Simon has to say although i wouldn't comment on indivaul cases. Ceartintly last years D Squad selections seemed to disadvantage juniors in isloated areas. Some people from the South Island missed out on selections when they should've been in the squad. I thing this stems from people running in less major events if they are not willing to travel.

Not selecting people from smaller and more isolated clubs i think has been a problem with the d squad over the last 5 years. As rob says this may be a problem with not being able to find sutiable people to be selectors and i accpet that.

At the end of the day though not being selected for the D squad in a particular year may lead to getting very motivated. This will mean that you have no problems getting selected the following year if you run at major events. People can still go to camps if they are not in the squad as well.

In general I think the selectors do a good job but could do a better one if they looked at results from smaller more isolated events to see how people compare.


Show Profile  onemanfanclub Posted: 30 April 2004, 10:18 AM  
Thank you Jamie for sticking up for the passionate M21as's

But I hope this is not a subtle indication of what grade you intend to run when you next emerge from the polar ice sheet. We're not worried about your legendary orienteering prowess (does that mean prowess in navigating across the legend after running off the map?), more whether we will be able to raise the standard of sledging to meet your witty repartee.

BTW, what's the record number of postings on one thread? or the record number of subject changes?

Show Profile  Chris Forne Posted: 30 April 2004, 10:52 AM  
Wetfish, I don't think most of us are particually cutup, although from your postings it would appear you are pretty annoyed with something. And I'm not aware that everything is crashing down as you suggest.


Show Profile  mark Posted: 30 April 2004, 1:38 PM  
I didn't realise there were any M21AS's passionate about orienteering.

Orienteering sucks

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