 Greg
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Posted: 27 April 2004, 1:13 PM
Jenni your points are never valid.
Simon Learn to read
Wetfish get some balls
Most of the suggestions on here would look really good next to, 'why don't we go back to having to carry a pencil to write down numbers' and 'the controls should have a compass setting and a pace number to find the next control'
Elites like mass starts?, well as an elite I also like orienteering not cross country running like the Relays are now.
How can we have a National Relay Championship when its the only relay over the whole year.
Why the hell is it Orange, all the levels are now red why can't the relay be red level.
Finaly the arguement about some clubs not having the people to do certain variations is the same for all variations.
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Wetfish
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 2:28 AM
Ever heard of small man syndrome Gregory?
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Wetfish
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 2:30 AM
Who am I Simon?
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Chris Forne
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 3:02 AM
Well, I have to agree with Greg on two points.
1) The relays, really ought to be red level! At least for leg 1, and probably the other 2 legs as well. What are elites doing running orange level on a 30min course? The only orange level course should be the sprint race.
2) Wetfish does appear to be a bit of a wet fish. At least Greg owns up to all his postings, rather than hiding behind some alias name.
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 3:40 AM
The reason for orange as I understand it, was to maximise the number of teams by allowing the likes of adult B grade runners to compete on supposedly equal terms. And in theory produce the ocaisional "upset come from nowhere" type result. Imagine if you will HV before Andrew and Bill's day, recruiting Johnathan Wyatt, training him up to orange level and letting him loose on leg 1 =)
BUT if you look at who runs in the relay neither of these possibilities are being taken advantage of, so yeah, I'd go for red as well. Keep leg 1 for the mixed short orange, and make it open age-wise though.
If W21E were allowed on to the medium leg, then you'll recall I suggested equivalent male classes were also allowed. Whether this means M20 or M18, and M35 or M40 I can't say, but someone can work that out surely.
Greg, I'm sure I usually run 3 relays each season. Maybe I'm imagining two of them? The National one is by far the premier in terms of size, quality, atmosphere. And I like the variety offered by the 4 events currently offered at nationals. Orienteering solo through the forest is a nice challenge, keeping one's head on the navigation while caught up in a pack run is a fun challenge. That's why there are 4 events, if you don't like them all then just enter the ones you like. And if you are arguing for either a change in the relay format or replacing the relay with something else, isn't it about time you told us what you're proposing instead?
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Jenni
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 4:34 AM
I don't think the first leg of the relay is a cross country run. Orienteering requires strength in running and in navigation technique (and mental/psychological type skills). I would agree that orange favours the running side more than is optimum but note:
1) the first two in on the relay this year also won the three other events between them - they were the best male orienteers present at Nationals this year
2) the fastest cross country runner of the woman who ran (Tan wasn't running) was not the first woman in
3) Stu is probably one of the next best runners after the two that did come in first and he made a mistake and came in a bit down (not really a navigational mistake I believe but the sort of mistake you make when you are running a bit faster than your comfort zone - in all races you should be running at the speed just below where mistakes start to happen, it's hard to find this, mass start races help you to practise getting there and seeing what happens when you go beyond it)
3) It would be great to see what Jonathon Wyatt could do in orienteering with a bit of training but I think he would require quite a lot of practice before he could come in within 20 minutes of the leaders - it is gaffeled remember!
4) Long night at Tiomila this year could be described as a cross-country run - it wasn't gaffeled, still the dude out in front all on his own went faster than the pack of 20 chasing him who included some quite good cross country runners who are also *experienced* orienteers. Orienteering courses always require you to orienteer not just run!
5) As Nic says, GREG (so you might spot your name), if you don't like it, don't do it. Others do like it and it's also good for getting them to be able to orienteer at a speed that will improve their chances of a top international place. And please do bring on your constructive suggestions...
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Southernman
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 4:42 AM
Relay's should be red on the first and last legs with an orange as the middle leg so that teams are still able to place people with less experience in the main relay and still be competitive as well as teams having to have at least one female.
"Elites like mass starts?, well as an elite I also like orienteering not cross country running like the Relays are now"
Greg in the classic you ran M21AS, the relay you didn't run and you ran elite in the middle and sprint, hell I ran further than you at the nationals and I don't consider myself an elite, I think most younger people enjoy mass starts, and if you enjoy mass starts why were you not in the relay.
Bring back the chasing short o
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runningbeast
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 7:16 AM
yeah - bring back the chasing short o
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Wetfish
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 8:48 AM
Wetfish does appear to be a bit of a wet fish.
No Shit Sherlock
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Chris Forne
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 9:23 AM
Well, I'm glad we agree on that one.
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Greg
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 1:15 PM
ok for Jenni I'll state them a bit more clearly.
Make the relays Red level as all grades included are now also at Red level
And have more than 1 relay a year. And on that note more than 1 mass start Elite race a year. (and again I couldn't be assed reading your mass of posting)
Dion I wouldn't be telling anyone how LONG you spent out in the forest at Nationals if I was you.
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Wetfish
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Posted: 28 April 2004, 1:56 PM
Relays I know of:
NZ Champs
AOA Relays
WOA Relays
North Island SS Champs
NZ SS Champs
Some clubs also hold their own relays.
Some clubs also hold their own schools relays.
If you are good enough to get in the ANZ teams (or if you know the "selectors" well enough) you also have that relay.
And then there is the Aussie Schools Relay.
I believe that's more than one relay.
Speaking of relays, they don't appear to be included on the NZOF stats website.
PS people who run AS should keep their mouth shut
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fraser
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Posted: 29 April 2004, 12:58 AM
You can take AOA Relay off the list, it isn't actually a relay despite its name!
But you can add All Night relays.
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 29 April 2004, 5:54 AM
See, there you go Greg, once you actually state your position, people will start agreeing with you.
Yes, make the mixed long relay red (see my last post for more detail on my exact position here).
Yes let's have more relays (and support the ones that already exist), one or two more mass start races, more middle distances for EVERYONE. But let's not forget that apart from where there's a sense of obligation (National and Regional Champs), any additional races will only be put on by clubs that can & want to put them on.
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Marquita G
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Posted: 29 April 2004, 8:20 AM
I resent the implications made by the statement in "Wetfish's" last post that knowing the selectors well will aid selection to a team. I suggest if Wetfish (whoever he/she may be) or anyone else has an issue with selection process then they approach the selection panel directly or go straight to the NZOF with their concerns, rather than make snide, anonymous remarks.
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