 Greg
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Posted: 10 May 2007, 2:19 PM
Those nations are also inline with WOC, dont we want to improve our National competition so we perform better at WOC, so to get inline we would need to start our "season" around March.
Other Nations also have a massive Elite population and they dont need all of their Elite community to turn up to the races for them to be competitive.
If you have the best of our Elites going to WOC, then wanting a competitive block 6-8 weeks after that, is it going to be the best time for them to peak again so that NZ on a whole is improving, more than likely they will either not turn up or be on a down, meaning the races which are meant to be top competition will have the best NZ elites not in top shape, how does this help improve us?
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 11 May 2007, 3:35 AM
If I can make a vast generalisation: Looking at top orienteers (and probably most sportspeople) I see there are those who train to peak at particular times of the year, and those who are solidly consistent throughout the year. The best of the first group are the ones you'd back to win at nationals and/or make the world champs team (in an ideal world where we had the best possible team every year) so already have that to aim for. The best of the other group can be at or near the top of every race until nationals when they sort of disappear into the pack. Potentially the SS gives them something to aim for - ideally it becomes a "race" between those with a few excellent results and those with many good results. Having the series spread over the period it has been emphasises this. So long as the spring rounds have less than about a third of the total number of races, then the "peak performers" can choose to either miss them and still have a chance to take the series with some big scores later, or come along knowing they won't be at their best but that the small scores they collect could be important later.
Or they can stuff their season/bodies/world champs prep/whatever by going hard to win every round - which might be what's happening. I freely admit that nobody else contributing to this discussion knows less than me about physical conditioning, training and peaking, so if a majority of elites think a spread-out series is doing more harm than good, then I'll defer to that opinion. Otherwise I suppose my point is that there's a reason we have a NZ Champs and a Series - they're 2 different types of competition.
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 11 May 2007, 3:49 AM
I do understand your arguments Greg, but I wonder if you're assuming we need every top runner at every round for the series to be viable and achieve its aims. In my opinion, for the men at least, we only need to aim to have MOST of the best at MOST of the rounds (so long as they don't all choose the same one to miss!) for a viable competition - and that's a more realistic goal. I admit that the women's competition can look shakey once top runners start missing rounds... (if I knew the secret for gaining and retaining more female orienteers, believe me, I'd be out there putting it into practice)
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Michael
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Posted: 11 May 2007, 6:00 AM
I think Greg is right and a more compact series is desirable. I saw the period following WOC as being a mental and physical rest, especially the former. When I was involved I included pre-Christmas events because there wasn't so much to choose from after Christmas - but now there is.
This message was edited by Michael on 11 May 2007, 2:03 PM
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ole codger
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Posted: 12 May 2007, 11:39 AM
Greg is right, compress.What if CMOC bought Auck Champs forward from mid Sept to mid May. They are considering!. That gives a season from Feb 2 WAITANGI TO QB. But the events are still SPREAD to far apart. The ideal hypothetical season for 2008 could have been Waitangi Fun event and fund raiser for Nat squad. Otago CHAMPS 8/9 March or better still 5-6 April. Easter 21-24 March becomes Wellington Champs 3 day + NZ Relays. S.I Champs anzac April 25-27. CD Champs May 3-4, Auckland Champs 17-18 May, 2 weeks before 3 DAY Nationals at QB. The NZ Champs at the end of the season where it should be. What a great Super Series and build-up for WOC, JWOC and a HCS for all other competitors who enjoy bit of a challange in their orienteering life. This is a format that good be used for 2009 and on if every region put their heads together and thought it through.
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Paul I
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Posted: 12 May 2007, 2:50 PM
That idea sounds very appealing to me Wayne, having more intensity, structure and purpose all round. The various OY series could then start after a mid winter break (and after the WOC/JWOC international season), building to an end of year October finally, Followed by the usual exam/xmas/summer holiday break. This way the OY series as a totally seperate competition could be seen to be more beneficial and high profile than they are. This could culminate in some sort of reverse order chasing start sort of event based on handicaps for some special excitement ??? Or a normal chasing start (based on total score after the allowable dropped event(s))to get the OY champion for each grade.
For the obsessive compulsives they can do the summer series park events and things like score events during the mid winter break.
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Paul I
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Posted: 12 May 2007, 3:04 PM
...and for those wanting something to aim for at the end of the year, apart from the OY Championship you could head over the ditch and challenge the Aussies at their championships, usually held in Sep/Oct.
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andrew b
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Posted: 13 May 2007, 7:41 AM
I agree Wayne it sounds like the best chance for a build-up for orienteers throughout the country before a Nationals at Q-Bday (you could even get the relay in if you tried)but............. it will never happen. I dont think we are flexible enough at committee levels to be prepared to accept changes like this. I hope a calendar like this can be put forward to different clubs to show them what may be a fair compromiseand we can get things moving. I know our club is deeply unhappy at the current format.
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Jamie
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Posted: 13 May 2007, 10:17 AM
You guys have to be taking the piss?
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Casser
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Posted: 14 May 2007, 9:29 AM
From what I have heard from the dudes down here in the South, the best motivation for keeping up the o-technic training and keeping focus is to have a SuperSeries Weekend every month and with a least 3 weeks in between. Then there is time to analyse the races and line up (execute) some relevant traing to improve specific skills in time for the next round (depending on how much work is needed to improve the specific skill). Furthermore there will be time to recover from travelling and all the organising that's involved in attending a o-week-end.
Another way to keep up motivation is that the SuperSeries have races in cool terrain and with lots of people around, which often means attending the biggest events (can afford updated maps of new terrain).
I think most people are so relatively fit that no matter what program they are on a couple of easy days before a full on SuperSeries weekend should make them competetive, if not then the cool competition and hanging out with the dudes should motivate them in their current training program or give them ideas to improve the program.
Of course a SuperSeries weekend should be about competing but still a focus should be maintained on following your plan (the things that you have figured out you need to do o-technic wise to get better, get these new technics under your skin even in a competetion). This is one of main things that has to be done to improve and then showing of where the new applied skills will put you in the rankings is just an extra bonus.
The SuperSeries should also be about supporting each other, motivating each other and getting ideas from each other only in this way will we reach our full potential as New Zealand is not a big o-nation with lots of resources, but we have lots of talent, that's for sure, build up through years of development training camps for the young ones and we just need to build a bit on that and we'll take off, but only keeping on supporting each other to motivate to achieve.
What does this mean for the setup of the SuperSeries?Mostly it means that we have to use the best terrains/competetions, trying to have competetions every month in the period that we have the SuperSeries going.
The SuperSeries Program should be ready well in advance and the plan is to go for a settlement at the end of May. Then funding should be organised well in advance making it much easier to figure out the costs.
More on the motivational side: The webPage should be up to date all the time. It is planned to set up a new database driven homepage with easy update of news and results, pointtables and so fort.
Is it going to be too long a break that we should exclude Wellington/CD champs on coolest terrain as well as the Nelson South Island Champs. I feel like these two weekends has a lot to offer on the motivational side. I do think that Auckland Champs are too early and too close to Oceania (the combination will mean a lot of travel).
Are there any other options for competetions up Auckland way in Autumn?
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SJ
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Posted: 14 May 2007, 3:35 PM
Why do you ask if they're taking the piss Jamie?
Personally, I don't agree that the season outlined by Wayne is the best possible option, but I think his ideas have merit, and they are certainly a step in the right direction. But it seems like we have an attitude that any proposed changes are rubbished.
So I'm just interested Jamie - are you personally suggesting this is a stupid idea, or just warning that others are resigned to the fact that we can't realistically get any plans like this put into action?
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Greg
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Posted: 14 May 2007, 4:02 PM
I think Jamie is getting at that Auckland clubs have the ones opposed to Waynes season stating Woodhill can only be used in the winter.
I dont think the change has to go all the way through to club level, I think Wayne you will get more support if you just push for a few of the major events to change and just leave the clubs to have their own event plans, that way they can still keep the majority of the calendar that they want.
Carsten whats the reasoning behind the "at least 3 weeks in between"
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SimonB
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Posted: 14 May 2007, 4:21 PM
most sports play every weekend for their season... why can't we? have a reall hardcore two months of pain... or something
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ole codger
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Posted: 15 May 2007, 12:30 AM
The problem with clubs having their own event plans is that not many see a constuctive overall plan for the betterment oF NZ orienteering. Many have their own adgenda and blow the others. For clubs to develop a constructive season, they need to know the Dates of a HC SEASON and then they can formulate promotion/ coaching / school/ o/y dates leading up to it and after. Once a HCS is in place, ( there will have to be give and take )
it should stay put so clubs will always know that those are the dates of the HCS and will be able to plan years ahead.
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HeadHoncho
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Posted: 15 May 2007, 2:11 AM
"If I knew the secret for gaining and retaining more female orienteers, believe me, I'd be out there putting it into practice"
The long-term answer is obvious. John and Val Robinson were light-years ahead of their time - but we have Carsten and Jenni showing the way now. Others need to follow, although I hesitate to encourage Jamie and Greg along this route as I am uncertain if passing their genes on is a good idea.
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