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Mapping

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 23 April 2010, 3:38 PM  
My map 'stretched' on a barbed wire, pain to see the distorted map where it was affected. My thoughts have always been whats wrong with map bags, they do the job and in total the paper, printing and bags are cheaper.

I've always found the colours better when exporting to PDF rather than printing straight from OCAD, but thats just on a home printer

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 23 April 2010, 3:41 PM  
Thanks guys, here's a summary of the great Fuzzby mystery. I can say that it was delivered as requested as an OCAD 8 file. But so was Foxy Roxy and presumably The Grapes of Wrath and The Butcher. Then, perhaps, it went into OCAD 10 course planning (whereas the others were OCAD 8 course planning - confirm?). Then it was sent to the printer as a pdf (whereas the others would have had to be via eps as OCAD 8 can't do pdfs).

Tane suspects pdfs are not as sharp as eps's. I had heard some tales of oddities in which pdfs are implicated, so I did some tests when I started using them. I have been completely satisfied, and there are minimal jaggies on a Naseby test print I got at my regular printer.

So... could it be the way OCAD 10 course setting handles things cf OCAD 8? I've just done a little test and examined the resulting pdf in Acrobat. 6400% zoom and I can't see any jaggies, so it must still be in vector form at this point. The pdf then goes to the print house.

So are we left with some mysterious difference within the software at the print house - dealing with pdfs differently from eps's? Or finally just that the operator sent it to a different printer (machine)?

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 23 April 2010, 3:45 PM  
Of all the digitally printed maps that i have run on i find the clearest, sharpest, truest coloured maps to have been Sprint the bay HBOC, closely followed by Oceania 2009 PAPO and next DOC's 2010, appart from the relays! (ever so slightly more coarse, and registration not quite perfect, and let down by a strange rendering of gray bare rock - not that we used those rock bits). What i do notice in common though is that all those map files appear to have been made using condes.


It would be handy to know what issues clubs have had and discovered in their hunt for the best digital printing.

Show Profile  Tane Cambridge Posted: 23 April 2010, 4:11 PM  
Sprint, Middle and Long planned on OCAD8, Base map OCAD8, eps files.
Relay planned on OCAD10 (CS), Base map OCAD8, pdf files.

Dunedin does not have or use condes
nor does it have OCAD10 but the planner of the relay has a copy (possibly a demo copy?)

As far as I am aware all map files were printed at the same printer and I assume on the same printing machine



Show Profile  Tane Cambridge Posted: 23 April 2010, 4:13 PM  
Also OCAD8 cant export as pdf's but it can print files as pdf's

Show Profile  The Map Guy Posted: 23 April 2010, 4:19 PM  
I have had quite a bit of experience getting maps printed (off-set) using PDF files. This is the format printers want these days, not EPS. I have used several printers and that was the format they preferred. To date, I have had excellent results with contour lines and coloured text being nice and sharp when they were off-set printed.

When OCAD9 was released the OCAD team changed how the software handles the printing. I can print certain maps with OCAD8 but can't with OCAD9 (non orienteering maps so don't worry folks).

OCAD10 allows large background maps (templates, or logos) to be printed, whereas earlier OCAD versions would only print the OCAD part and ignored the template. To get round this problem of printing directly from OCAD (with OCAD 8 and 9) I have to use a PDF file. Remember OCAD8 can't generate PDF files, so it has to be imported into OCAD9.

EPS and PDF files are both vector images and can be scaled without pixels showing up (as in JPG, TIFF, or BMP which are raster images). They are usually imported into Adobe software for further processing prior to printing (i.e. generating "plates").

Commercial and CopyShop printing is usually done at higher resolution than what you use on your home printer. Every different model of laser printer seems to produce its own specific result.

Don't use Phaser printers for printing maps - they look terrible (oily and fuzzy).

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 23 April 2010, 4:25 PM  
re condes, i must see an optomitrist about my eyesight as i thought i saw it on the descriptions, my bad. actually i didn't completely like the print result for humpty bumpty because the contours were too light compared with the nice printing colours and sharpness of bannockburn.

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 23 April 2010, 4:25 PM  
re condes, i must see an optomitrist about my eyesight as i thought i saw it on the descriptions, my bad. actually i didn't completely like the print result for humpty bumpty because the contours were too light compared with the nice printing colours and sharpness of bannockburn.

Show Profile  DMjunior Posted: 23 April 2010, 5:00 PM  
for sprint the bay and for other hboc events we use condes as it is easier for course setters then someone (pam or dave) exports the courses from condes, opens them in ocad then exports it as a pdf.

Show Profile  The Map Guy Posted: 23 April 2010, 9:56 PM  
I agree with DM Jnr. I too prefer to use Condes to the OCAD CS software - more flexible and is a specific course setting software that has got better and better over the years . Any poor colours on the map (control descriptions and/or course) are not the "fault" of Condes, but the settings in the OCAD colour table. Easy to alter if detected by a proof map being printed. Once set up correctly (i.e. OCAD, NOT Condes) there shouldn't be a problem with other courses.

It is possible to externally set the control descriptions colours in Condes, then export them to the OCAD map file. These colours appear at the top of the colour table. Any colour which was already there (e.g purple) is not over ridden.

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 24 April 2010, 12:12 AM  
Sorry what does OCAD Course Setter stand for?, specific course setting software maybe?

Condes is for simpletons (thats why PAPO use it) and OCAD CS (course setter) is a much better program for anyone with more than half a brain cell

Show Profile  Jenni Posted: 24 April 2010, 2:22 PM  
Have you tried condes, Greg?
I know you're just trying to get a rise but I do think it's sad more clubs aren't using condes because it's great.

Reasons PAPO decided to go for it,
0. It's Danish and everything Danish is great
1. It's a bit grey whether club members can have copies of OCAD on their computers if the club only has one licence. Condes is a club licence that allows it go on all club members' computers.
2. It has lots of useful features including:
easy to place graphics on the template
easy to cut circles
has symbol-text translation for control descriptions
Maybe later versions of OCAD have that but our standard ocad 8 doesn't
and probably lots more that I can't think of.

It is a bit easier to use than OCAD but it's not so much that, but that condes seems to do things in a smarter way that makess it the course setting tool of choice. Given that it's the smart choice, it's surely no surprise that a club full of intelect has chosen it.

Show Profile  Jenni Posted: 24 April 2010, 3:12 PM  
makess -> makes
intelect -> intellect
plus probably more typos I haven't noticed blame the baby on my knee!
(I wasn't claiming to be part of the intellect!)

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 24 April 2010, 7:22 PM  
Those who want to debate course setting software should start a new thread.

Show Profile  DMjunior Posted: 24 April 2010, 11:22 PM  
the reason hboc use condes is for first time setters it is easy to use. we have alot of these in our club.


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