 nick
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Posted: 19 September 2005, 5:37 AM
We are still only arguing the "When"
We have yet to consider the "How"
Can't wait for that thread...
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olde codger
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Posted: 19 September 2005, 6:56 AM
This must be the most contentious and debated issue before orienteering for a long time. A constructive season to revitalize NZ orienteering. The timing of the Nats is only a small part of it. With all the varied opinions being made on the subject, I made a request to the NZOF to have my discussion paper (see my letter to Ed.NZ Orienteer Sept issue)discussed at the Regional Forums. I was hoping for some positive strong leadership from the NZOF and a chance to have formal debate and discussion.
This is the reply from the President.'(A)The upcoming Regional Development Forums have a set agenda to discuss development issues and we believe it is not an appropriate forum for your for discussion paper. (B)One of your contentious issues is the timing of the Nationals. More recently, this has been debated by clubs at the AGM. through the remit process and it's our opinion that this remains the appropriate forum for this issue to be discussed.
(C)Because of this the NZOF will not be establishing a Think Tank committee to consider you proposal.'
As the debate goes on in Maptalk, letters to the Editors, and the recent survey sent out by NWOC to clubs(i've yet to see it)I maintain that it is more important than ever to have a Think Tank committee of either informed, unbiased forward thinkers from the orienteering regions or else a group of Sporting analysers from outside of the sport, much like Rugby did back a decade ago before Super 12.
The NZOF recently sent a Club Survey out and that does not cover the issue either, but they do give the clubs a chance to make an opinion in Miscellaneous. Q15; Are there any major issues that you believe are facing our sport, which you think NZOF could do a better job in helping address.
In regards to Bryan's offer of an e-mail or web survey, the questions should be carefully thought out and not be leading. But as Bryan says, after he has collated all the results, he suspects we will get a result like the elections, split with no clear result.Which is all the more reason for an informed Think Tank Committee.
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fraser
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Posted: 19 September 2005, 9:27 AM
The debate about when the season is seems like a lost cause to me. If the NZOF decided that, for example, summer is the season for orienteering then how do they inforce this? Are the going to ban orienteering in winter??
Even in this small country there seems to be enough local variation in climate or land use to make different regions have different ideas on when orienteering is best for them.
So you can debate the timing of nationals but debating the season seems pointless on a national level.
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MASH
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Posted: 19 September 2005, 12:29 PM
No, no,no, no! The Nationals are at Easter, we dont need the debate of when the Nationals should be held, all we want to see is a properly structured competitive program leading up to the Nationals which should include the district champs scheduled both just before and just after the Nationals.( Michaels suggestion "district champs held around the Nationals" - I personally like this idea)
As regards to banning orienteering in winter NO! this does not have to be the case, the various districts can choose to do so or not.
However, it would be nice to to see a progressively structured event program based around summer not winter starting( as previously suggested) with promo events in spring/summer then moving into competitive events summer/Autumn.
Throw in a carnival type event at Labour Weekend/mid January (which has also been suggested) and you would have such an attractive "O" season for both local and visiting
orienteers. We have never had a pre Easter event structure because the Labour Weekend fraternity keep resisting such a move. They will keep throwing in the red herrings until we are conned/ bullied into what they want.
Auckland stuffed up the elections, don't let them stuff up the sport!
Gee's, I think its time I changed my user name I'm starting to feel the heat in this town!
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Ellmo1769
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Posted: 19 September 2005, 12:38 PM
Well I guess some people would say Auckland stuffed up the election but others would say they saved the Country Bumpkins from a big mistake
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HeadHoncho
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Posted: 19 September 2005, 1:26 PM
Points well made Fraser.
Wayne, we do have a think tank committee of unbiased, forward thinkers. They are called the NZOF Council. They (not me) are the ones who replied to your proposal.
One definition of positive strong leadership is not responding to people who make the most noise, or reviewing decisions because some people cannot accept "no" as an answer.
To make it absolutely plainly clear to you:
1. NZOF's view is the timing of the nationals is a matter for clubs to decide, at AGM.
2. If you want a competitive, structured season, and if you want part of this structured season to have the Nationals at Labour Weekend - read 1. above
3. NZOF is not setting up a think tank committee to consider a competitive, structured season if part of that consideration involves a possible changing the date of the nationals - read 1. above
4. NZOF is not going to tell clubs/regions when they should hold their provincial championships, that is up to clubs in each region to decide.
Signed the rude and undiplomatic one.
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HeadHoncho
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Posted: 19 September 2005, 11:48 PM
Brenda wrote:
"Well Rodney Hide is still trying to convince Epsom voters to vote him into parliament"
Looks like Brenda you're joining Keith Locke in the nude run down Newmarket.
A piece of trivia. Keith Locke is the brother of Don Locke, who used to be secretary of the British O Fed.
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HeadHoncho
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Posted: 19 September 2005, 11:54 PM
Nick,
Orienteering is a sport. It can also be a recreation. Any reason why it can't be both?
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nick
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Posted: 20 September 2005, 5:29 AM
Hi Rob.
No, of course it can be both because sport is inherently recreational. But in designing our competitions, which is the primary focus? If it is one before the other there will be implications for the way it is organised.
What I'm saying is that if you agree orienteering is a sport, ultimately NZO has to aim for wins at WOC (and JWOC/WMOC). And if we talk about what is required to do that, we will find this guides us in all the other discussions we are having.
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MASH
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Posted: 20 September 2005, 6:45 AM
I agree with both but in my opinion we must treat it as a sport first and formost. When I explain orienteering to people who ask what it is,
my first description is: it is a highly competitive sport,emphasising the highly competitive nature of it, but then, my next statement outlines how and why it is also a non competitive recreational outdoor activity.
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HeadHoncho
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Posted: 20 September 2005, 7:04 AM
OK I'm convinced. Let's just decide a programme and tell the clubs like it or lump it.
South Is Champs Feb/March
CD Champs 2 weeks before Easter
Nationals Easter
Wgtn Champs midway between Easter/QB
Auckland Champs Queens Birthday
Problem solved.
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Greg
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Posted: 20 September 2005, 9:17 AM
I'll seconded that
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nick
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Posted: 20 September 2005, 10:49 AM
I think thats a good schedule.
5 major events leading up to WOC. Elites should be in top shape to hit WOC. Good for selectors to trace the form of potential national reps.
Also a relatively compact season for a "super series" competition or its reincarnation. OY-type events can provide build-up for the regional champs (and of course local opportunities for we non-elite orienteers to get out for a trot in the forest!). Still leaves plenty of time in the year to have the "fun" events, and experiment with new formats.
Summer events open up potential for camping at event centre like european carnivals. More social. Good for attracting new people to the sport, and great for the young ones who we will theoretically be grooming as WOC winners. Good chance for muppets like me to sit at the feet of the elders and soak up their ancient orienteering wisdom.
Easier to get media coverage(?).
Minimal impact on exam preparation for students.
Acknowledges NZ's climatic realities
A greater number of Europeans may be tempted to spend their off season in NZ - chance for us to learn from them, learn how to beat them! Chance to build relationships eg: more places for kiwis to crash when they go to Europe to compete...
I dunno how the politics work Rob, but I can see plenty of merit in the suggested schedule.
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MASH
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Posted: 20 September 2005, 11:11 AM
Oh yes Rob! it could be just as easy as that, but, whats the bet it wont be.
An added suggestion: whichever club holds the Nationals at Easter an associated district club
holds their District champs on the Monday & Tuesday prior to Easter (allows travel to the event at the weekend) then start the Nationals on Thursday, through Easter Friday and Saturday finishing on Sunday thus allowing competitors all day Easter Monday to travel home. Four days holiday or time off work would let competitors take in two major events in the one week with limited disruption.
This may also encourage more competitors to both events.
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MASH
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Posted: 20 September 2005, 11:29 AM
Nick, I like your common sense here.
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