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Nats at Labour Weekend?

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 16 September 2005, 12:59 AM  
Ahem. I don't think its actually sensible to stop orienteering at EITHER Easter or Labour weekend. The best we can achieve is that the Nationals are surrounded by other major events.

From the HP point of view we need good competition from Jan up to QB, and its just a pity that QB weather is too unreliable for the nationals. A possible scheme would be one area champs before Easter, one between Easter and QB, and one (as far north as possible) at QB.

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 16 September 2005, 10:49 AM  
Then why is NW still trying to convince clubs to back them in a remit for Nationals to be held at Labour Weekend?

Show Profile  onemanfanclub Posted: 16 September 2005, 11:17 AM  
That would be the NW committee, not the club as a whole, at least some of whom only know that this is being done on their behalf because members of other clubs have told them!

Show Profile  Brenda Boghopper Posted: 16 September 2005, 12:14 PM  
Why is NW still trying to convince clubs to back them in a remit for Nationals to be held at Labour Weekend?

Well Rodney Hide is still trying to convince Epsom voters to vote him into parliament...

Show Profile  MASH Posted: 16 September 2005, 1:39 PM  
Forget about refering to the Nationals at Labour weekend. (its a dead duck)
Let the NZO fraternity concentrate its efforts into putting forward a well constructed "O" program leading up to and around the Nationals
at Easter.
Michaels idea of surrounding the Nationals with area champs is logical and fits in nicely with the various other program scenario's
outlined in this forum discussion.
The answer to Jamie's question "will the clubs come on side....etc"? appears to be the only hold up for a program to be set up.
Why then are the rest of NZ "O" clubs/fraternity allowing a club commitee to hold up (dictate)a progressive policy?

This message was edited by MASH on 16 September 2005, 4:04 PM

Show Profile  andrew b Posted: 18 September 2005, 8:23 AM  
Interesting that NWOC seems to be held as responsible for the move to drag the Nationals to Labour weekend, this in fact is not correct. To work in unison with the country NWOC sent out a survey to all the clubs nationwide to actually see what other clubs wanted and so far only have had one response. Dont forget all the discussion here will come to nothing unless you can get a majority of votes at the National AGM to change the programme by remit or general agreement. If you really want to see a change in date,format or buiidup you need to actually discuss it with your club or get involved at a committee level.

Show Profile  MASH Posted: 18 September 2005, 1:29 PM  
Oh come on! Easter was never accepted by this club and others and probably never will be. The change to Easter was a democratic decision years ago but has not been given a fair go by not only this club (or committee) but all those who still oppose it. Auckland as a whole will not and have not implemented a proper program of events leading up to Easter as it should have be done. For the good of the sport give Easter a the fair go by implementing a program for a the Spring, Summer, Autumn period. If then this doesn't appear successful, then thats the time to reconcider and not before.
During my time in this sport I have seen many cosmetic changes to it and all for the better. But, these changes have not helped with the growth of the sport. I know there are many reasons why the sport struggles to grow and most we cannot address because they are beyond our control. However, the one change which I see has the potential to help the sport grow is a change from the same old, same old, Winter "O" season (in my case 24 years of it) to a Summer season. Such a change/reason is one we can control. Why not give it our best shot for a period of time!

This message was edited by MASH on 18 September 2005, 2:36 PM

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 18 September 2005, 2:14 PM  
Take a read of David Godfrey's article in this month's Auckland O magazine, its the most interesting iv seen yet. Available on the NWOC website.

Show Profile  darren Posted: 18 September 2005, 6:37 PM  
We all know that club committees only ever make decisions based the views of the loudest/ most influential person(s) on the committee and that the quiet/new/inexperienced members never get a say.

Maybe we could organise an internet poll of some sort or include voting papers in the next issue of the National mag.

That way everyone who wants to gets to have their vote and its not just the short sighted and selfish that get to decide on behalf of everyone else.

Show Profile  Bryan Posted: 19 September 2005, 7:36 AM  
I'm willing to create a voting page if you want - I can easily do this and I can collate the results.

This will get the silent vote but will miss the ones with no access to the internet. (maybe they can do proxy votes and ask someone with access to vote for them).

A problem could be that some people may vote twice but I hope everyone is honest.

The voting form could include:
- Name (optional),
- club (to determine area/island splits),
- age (to determine age splits)

What should they vote on?:
eg Nationals at Easter
Nationals at Labour weekend
Nationals at Queens Birthday
Nationals on other weekends (requires two separate weekends)

Easter can cater for all four events but the 3 day weekend would require sprint, middle on one day, long and relays on the other two days) or the scrapping of one event (eg sprint, relays).

An what should the event order be? - eg should long go first, 2nd or third. There are many combinations and probably many different opinions.

What about other issues like relays, new zones, change dates of area champs, change season? Leave for another day or include in form?

Even after collating all the results, I suspect we will get a result like the election - split with no clear result.

Show Profile  andrew b Posted: 19 September 2005, 10:01 AM  
Wasnt that what NWOC was trying to do? A survey to see what people wanted. Hope it comes to something

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 19 September 2005, 10:05 AM  
Yes if I was on the council I would not want to be bound by such a poll. The question of suitability of the program for elite competition for example may not be well represented by the non-elite population: about 1550 out of 1600. In some ways I would expect a more thorough consideration of all the issues by club committees - where even the quietest member is exposed to the arguments.

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 19 September 2005, 10:09 AM  
Before asking the question of Easter/Labour/QBday, a question should be asked about when during the season the nationals should be held, simply:
* Start of season
* Middle of season
* End of season.

It's frustrating seeing people jumping to the weekend question first. The NWOC survey only went to club heirachy, and was poorly received.

Show Profile  Brenda Boghopper Posted: 19 September 2005, 11:19 AM  
The Dave Godfrey letter in "this month's" AOA magazine link from NWOC (June!!!) hasn't done anything for this observer. But it DID contain a request from Czech orienteer Jaromir Svihovsky. "I plan to come in October, so it should be just before o-season..."

Show Profile  nick Posted: 19 September 2005, 12:33 PM  
jeez, i've been in Aussie for two weeks and this thread is still boiling!! And its managed to stay largely constructive...

gotta pick up on Martin's point - we're arguing multiple issues at once here, and it may be useful to separate them. For example:

a)Season: Spring/Summer/Autumn vs Autumn/Winter/Spring
b)Nationals 1: Start of season vs End of season
c)Nationals 2: Easter vs Labour Weekend

For my part, I believe we need agreement that NZ orienteering is a *sport* and not just a hobby. If its a sport, then ultimately the aim is to *win*, internationally. And this has consequences for the rest of the issues currently under discussion. Winning gives us a concrete concept to compare season-design proposals against. It gives us a direction to build our season towards. It will make this debate easier.

If, on the other hand, we're happy with orienteering just being a hobby, well, as long as we can continue to wear weird tracksuits and run around the forest looking for little flags, it doesn't really matter when the season is, or when we have Nationals, and we'll be perfectly happy arguing about it for the rest of our days.

My view:

*)Its a sport so we should be trying to win
a)Spring/Summer/Autumn season
b)Nationals as close to the end of the season as possible. Ideally the final event of the season (doubling as WOC trials)... but if our QBday climate refuses to play along then some pragmatism is required. Easter would then be the next best available candidate.
c)This particular debate becomes a red-herring the moment you agree that its a *sport*.

its nice to be home can't wait to get back out into the forest!

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