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NZSSC 2003 - What a cack

Show Profile  addison Posted: 10 July 2003, 3:18 AM  
Yeah man, bout to go for a training run now, run it off. And for you Rob, I dont want to know what your past times are, and trust me that us Waikato men dont have to revert to such courses of measure to get enjoyment.

And I wanna see Dave Stewart play Counter-Strike. Dave who do you play as?

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 10 July 2003, 7:52 AM  
Yeah, I hear cowpats have their uses (a la the apple pie scene from Amercian Pie).

Show Profile  addison Posted: 10 July 2003, 9:01 AM  
Cow pats do have their uses. And in this particular case, while your watching American Pie getting some ideas....... if a real Waikato man saw this, he would find the nearest cow pat and shove it flat in ya face.

Edited by - Simon Addison on 10/07/2003 17:06:51

Show Profile  PaulS Posted: 10 July 2003, 2:29 PM  
Yeah, yeah.

I'm not backing down from 10 competitors being a cack, but I am about the map. My source, who shall not be named (s*m*n a*d*s*n) told me that the course would have no climb, so assumed, yes it is bad to assume, that the map would not be very technical. Obviously, I am wrong, as so many of you have pointed out, so i know look foward to the orienteering course. Lets hope the results come down to orienteering ability, as they should.
As for the social, It would be well attended, and who cares if its not. At least they are making an effort to improve the whole overall quality of the event. There are about 40 orienteers coming from Hawkes Bay. Yes, it is a strong area, but lets look back to the NISS champs last year. How many competitors were the from the host club... ALOT. My point.. HBOC made an effort to get out to schools to promote the event, and what positice spin-offs that effort is having right now. 40 orienteers travelling a whole day to get to nelson. This is my point. If nelson wants to stop being a small club, they have to provide an entire package. That means promotion, a build-up, and other small things, like a social.

I know i sound like a little bitch, but SOMEONE HAS TO SAY IT.
We have to start somewhere to get orienteering to being a more popular sport, and like anywhere, that starts right at an early age... secondary schools. This is where NZ is going to get its future World Champions. Not at Street Series or whatever. At secondary school events.

Your thoughts please,
Paul Smith

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 11 July 2003, 2:43 AM  
What the Morrison's et al have done for Hawkes Bay orienteering is brilliant. If only all other clubs had their energy and charisma...if only we lived in a perfect orienteering world where ALL the pretty girls chose orienteering as their number one sport and we had the Maadi cup of orienteering.

Paul, I am interested in your comment that our future champions come from secondary school orienteering not summer series/club events etc. While agreeing that secondary school orienteering is vital in terms of promoting the sport and attracting talented athletes what turns these athletes into champions is involvement in the club/nzof coaching system.

In the past our weakness has not being attracting the talent but keeping it in the system. One Birkenhead orienteer from approximately 10,000 odd students still runs at elite level. This can be compared with 5 out of 50 odd students that were involved in Dunedin Secondary Schools in the mid 90's (Rachel and Rebecca Smith, Michal Glowacki, Mark Hudson and myself). The latter were more heavily involved in club activities, learning from experienced members and various NZOF run camps. These experiences are what makes champions.

While secondary schools orienteering is important we need to make sure that the wider orienteering community has structures in place to capture and develop this talent.

Show Profile  maskofsomething Posted: 11 July 2003, 10:33 AM  
Well guys I have to agree with you that Hawkes Bay has done really well in attracting young students to the sport. My idea involves getting the teachers in on the sport. Our one at St pats has absolutley no idea what we are doing but loves to be involved with the sport. (it helps that being a coach of a team is a requirment of our teachers).

My problem is how we are going to educate her on the ideas of orienteering and keeping her involved with the sport. Interestingly however we asked her to talk to her year 9 and 10 students about the sport and get them to come along to a street event held at the school. Who says schools cant dare i say it exploit the teachers and use the street scene as a stepping block to the secondary level and ultimately some elites in the club scene hopefully.

Show Profile  fancy_michael Posted: 11 July 2003, 5:53 PM  
Ha ha.. Jamie -that's nice of you to insinuate that Mark Hudson still "runs at elite level"

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 12 July 2003, 1:52 AM  
Jamie have you been to Norway = Maadi cup of orienteering just ask Neil (and from an inside sorce they even put make up on in the shower after the race)

Show Profile  maskofsomething Posted: 13 July 2003, 12:39 AM  
Thats not a bad idea, secondary school super series. I dont know how many would be keen but I would be. You could run it as the same time as the elites have theirs. Surely this would make selection for such things as the upcomming trip to oz a hell of a lot easier instead of basing it on one race allthough i feel the teams have already been selected.................

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 13 July 2003, 12:57 AM  
So what are the teams then mask?

Its hard enough to get the Elite super series running let alone bother with a secondary school series when there are bugger all school people good enough for a real series.

For the SS to work the events need to be not during the school holidays and be exciting, hence a social is not a bad idea. This should be part of the ss package.

Also there is no point taking 200 school kids to the nationals if only 3 of them can orienteer the rest will get lost, get beaten by a shit load, lose interest as it will also probably only be their 2nd or 3rd event, never do it again. Each School area needs to promote the SS scene to work them through rather than most of them running 3 events in a year and then never coming back.

Show Profile  maskofsomething Posted: 13 July 2003, 5:44 AM  
Well teams could be like those they have in Australia where the 6 best from each region are selected on form in the areas secondary school series events. This would also solve the issue of 200 kids getting lost getting beaten and I agree, getting put off the sport. I know that it may be a lot of hard effort but the schools series (nationally and regionally) would be a great launching pad for our future o'ers.

As to the issue of changing the dates I feel NZOF have it all wrong. North Islands before wellington champs? Then onto nationals. Nationals should be the finale to a school season not smack in the middle. The series events could lead to the area champs to the north Islands or south then finally nationals, this would elimanate the need to go searching for 200 lost people in forest because they would have allready had a build up to the event. Put the nationals in the school term aswell. As I mentioned previously our teacher is willing to help but other schools maybe able to get their teachers to take them if its seen as a school activity during school time. Simon once apon a time said that, AND I AGREE, to have the events leading up to nationals which should be held in the middle to end of term 3 holidays. Thus giving more time for regional champs etc and to prepare for a national, top class event.

This also applies to the club scene aswell, the nationals are held at easter.........WHY? the area champs are then not held till the end of that same year. Surely with only OY's to keep the oldies happy and a very few juniors entertained inbetween isnt it obvious why our new stars give it up IF THERE AINT ANYTHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO!

Show Profile  addison Posted: 13 July 2003, 6:24 AM  
Teams. What a crock of shit. Get real.

Do you only want say 30 people at a NZSS event? I sure as hell dont.

The whole enticing factor to the Nationals for people who are only new to Orienteering, is that anyone can go in it. They can say when they are old, 'I went to the Nationals for Orienteering when I was your age son'.... etc.

NZ is not big enough to support excluding people from its Orienteering events. Australia can as it has states, and in comparison to Aus, NZ is just a typical state. By excluding the 'crap', will just make our NZSS Champs "crap".

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 13 July 2003, 6:35 AM  
Debates about season structure, both nationally and at secondary school level, have been held on many occasions and various points of view are well known. "NZOF" do not have it wrong as the one thing almost everyone recognises is a season structure will never please everybody. In saying that, I'm not saying we have it perfect either.

NZOF has a volunteer secondary schools coordinator - Geoff Morrison - and if you are concerned about the timing of secondary school events - I invite you to contact him directly -

Regarding the timing of events for the sport as a whole, NZOF do intend to complete a review of the season structure in 2004.

Show Profile  maskofsomething Posted: 13 July 2003, 9:48 AM  
No, what I mean to say is that with the team structure you could have a series for secondary schools. I am not saying however to exclude or deter others by saying get lost, or this is only for the best 6. Look at the yr 7/8 category. I think it was a brilliant idea to have them join the schools because places like marsden and chilton caters for those aswell. But why cant we have a team thing aswell as a 'feature' race. I think more the merrier and I actaully want more people at a schools event. They only add to the general feel of the event in a no less than positive way.

Saying that New Zealand is a state of Australia sounds remarkably American. I think at the moment we need to come up with more ways to intice young ones to the sport. If we dont have a teams thing now Im sure someone will bring it up in the future.

Finally nobody actually answered my query about getting young students to join. As I Stated previously we had our teacher rep from school talk to both her year 9 and 10 classes and we had about 20 new people keen as to have a go. After trying the event after school we had ----------4------------ turn up at a meeting the next day. How are we meant to keep those numbers high..............with fun activities like a social? Orienteering has been branded as one of those sports that people dont care about. When I say i do O they go" oh thats the map and compass thing" In some ways yes and in others no. I think we need to stray away from old men in tight shorts and compass games at the school level, get them active in the sport even at low levels and then start thinking about compasses and more intense techniques.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 13 July 2003, 12:57 PM  
What needs to be cleared up with people, is what Orienteering actually is.

I work for Sport Waikato teaching Orienteering and the main thing I come upon when I ask them what they think Orienteering is are quotes such as
Isnt it like a treasure hunt thing

Perhaps if we cleared this up with them, and had training days at clubs etc, this can be changed.

A few things I do in my 1 1/2 hr coaching session is
- 'the basics' ie about map orientation, using features etc.
- then I do a basic course on the Karapiro OPC map (maybe 1km max)
- go over the problems they have had, and questions.
- play a map related game
- have a relay type game, with a control..... going out to a control, placing it, returning back and tagging partner. This partner then goes gets it and places at next control.
- having a clipping knockout comp
- and if the group is fast, we have a comp score event with a can of coke donated by Coca-Cola Amatil NZ as first prize.

Perhaps this type arrangement can be done to schools in your local area, perhaps through a local sporting entity such as Sport Waikato. Parks etc would be great.

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