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How about a Federation 3 Day

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 12 March 2007, 2:05 PM  
I've been trying to work out how we can recapture some of the adventure of orienteering, how we can make sure that the best areas of the country are mapped for experienced orienteers to run on, irrespective of the economics of club map making...

The best idea I have come up with so far is...


Basically a Waitangi style event run on maps financed by the NZOF...such an event would

1) Be a yearly standard setter for technical excellence in mapping, course setting etc

2) Be an iconic yearly orienteering adventure to motivate even the most cynical, hardened orienteering souls.

3) Provide over time a pool of high quality maps for high performance training

I think its time NZOF provided leadership in providing high quality orienteering experiences...maybe the coming 4 year strategic plan is time for this sort of change.

Whaddya reckon?

Show Profile  SJ Posted: 12 March 2007, 4:46 PM  
What an idea Jamie! Although there are probably many nay-sayers who will cite expenses, logistics and many other reasons undoubtably as to why this idea wouldn't work, it certainly sounds good to me.

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 13 March 2007, 1:19 AM  
Sounds like a great idea Jamie! The 3 goals make it sound like the perfect candidate for future nz champs

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 13 March 2007, 1:40 AM  
Yeah, isn't this what Easter, Queens Birthday, Labour Weekend events should be. I really don't see how this Federation 3 Day is going to be different to any other multi day. If you want an innovative exciting event I think Waitangi is/was it.

If you want adventure what about some sort of orienteering triathlon/duathlon that combines foot-o and mtb-o and some other adventurous stuff.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 13 March 2007, 2:19 AM  
I think you are just going back to your theory that the Federation should pay for mapping Jamie.

In theory it sounds good though.

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 13 March 2007, 3:18 AM  
Fereration National, yeah maybe.
It could eliminate the politics of who is going to get the nationals each year, and the way that clubs could possibly get a turn without first comming up with a map of suitable quality.
There is definately some potential here to shift the emphisis to finding and using our best, most technical areas around the country for a Federation Nationals, and therefore don't have to be suitable for club events as such.
The pitfalls however would be that a club is not putting their hand up and saying we'll be responsible for the maps, run the event, take the money, and keep the map for the future, unless it could be done that when the federation chooses a location, the closest most suitable club gets obliged to run the event, and take bragging rights, with the federation helping to fund the maps.
The shift in emphisis would then be who can find the very best terrain, but would still end up as which club can find the best terrain.
To focus on best terrain only, no matter of location it would probably be required for the federation to go solo, but who does all the work?
Another random idea I've always had in my mind... is there a place for private investment? ie; Could a professional mapper who discovers an awesome area, submit his/her discovery to an event organiser, club or in this case the federation, then if approved produce the map privately and then take rental from the organisers ? The rental would probably have to be at a premium so it would need to be a dam good map. The mapper would also need to have some guarantees in that the map gets used for a couple of major events at least enough to cover all there costs and reasonble income generation. If this concept worked then you could end up with a senario where he/she finds a great area, lets lets the federation know , who then matches the area to a suitable large event.

Well it's a bit complicated I know, but I'm just throwing ideas around!

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 13 March 2007, 5:52 AM  
No I'm not trying to fill up this page but... and yes I am bored, I should be training but am in an almost constant state of one injury or another - but that's another story for later - "Ahhh", I hear you sigh!)
I've been thinking about everyone comments so far and come up with a summary taking into account the following factors...
1. We need to continually strive for excellent quality maps and terrain
2. Events such as the recent Waitangi 4 -day run by the young ones provided a real buzz of excitment and a challenging set of events.
3. Is the biggest event of the year for us, the Nationals, missing out on something?
4. How do we get more International Orienteers to our shores?
5. The Australian National Champs have now become a big deal.
6. We don't need more events, we just need better events.

So first we need the right event, tie the nationals up with one of the existing multi days and in some years oceaneas etc, to make a carnival that would attract overseas competitors. It would also be an Aussie test match and anything else we can think of. Even though I personally stuggle with being fit in the begging of the season because of longer work hours, the event would need to take into account of getting northern hemmisphere runners just before their season kicks off and also as a lead up to the Australian season or Nationals.
I think getting the numbers to the event is key, from there better maps can be funded, and perhaps subsidised by the federation, The event, run over a week, does not have to be based around one location, perhaps two main centres, offering more variety.
It maybe too much for either a single club or the federation to be responsible for the funding and running of the event, so a combination wopuld probably be needed. In both the Milo 7 days we held back many moons ago, each day was held by a different club, each had to have an excellent map or were not to be included in the event. Simon, Greg, Martin and the rest of the young ones did such a stirling job of Waitangi, that maybe a D-squad group could have this as their yearly fundraising project, on a couple of the days at least, using maps or a map funded entirely by the federation, as a part of a bigger multiday nationals.
Wouldn't it be great to have a regular NZ event on the calender that is recognised overseas as a premier competition using great terrain and high quality maps and courses, the difference of having a number of top ausses and scandinavians at Waitangi was understated, and that is just the tip of the iceburg or possibilities.
Hey, if one of the maps is good enough, imagine another world cup race incorporated in the event.

Anyway dreams are free, but striving for events and maps of excellence can only be good for our future sport. That is also why we need everyone to loudly let people know if they discover an awesome area no matter where it is, so we at the very least have some choices.

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 13 March 2007, 6:39 AM  
Did you mention a season?

Show Profile  stu barr Posted: 13 March 2007, 8:20 AM  
perhaps the opposite to the NZOF claiming an event as Jamie suggests;

individuals, or groups such as Greg, Simon, etc that put on the waitangi weekend events, should spring up and claim weekends throughout the year. if they organise a regular, annual event that locals, new zealanders, australians and internationals get to know as recurring on the calendar they could attract larger numbers each year. this is assuming of course the event is of a standard to do so.

these groups would be running the events for not just the love of their sport as a volunteer but also, perhaps, make a little coin along the way. the better the event the more attractive. the more attractive the more entries. the more entries the more money. the more you want to make it attractive.

perhaps before long ten groups around the country could be vying for the most popular annual event and competing for a market. some organisers could target the secondary schools, some twilight events, etc. perhaps one of them could even contract the nationals?

i didn’t think about it till i started writing, but is this not what has created the huge leap in adventure racing? multiple events each weekend and races where they have to turn away entries!

maybe it won’t be long till there is new zealand’s first full time event organiser...

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 13 March 2007, 10:39 PM  
Nationals hasn't been a rol model for technical gets passed around often to clubs that seldom run big events and often has technical difficulties. The terrain hasn't always been great either

Waitangi weekend is great, but maybe it could be better if some of the unnecessary 'out of ciculation' money in NZO was put behind it.Those guys that ran Waitangi, could be or are the real leaders in technical and event excellence in NZ...but they can't use recycled maps forever..

I don't think many people would take a personal investment punt on making an orienteering map...otherwise someone would have already.

Show Profile  Keith Posted: 13 March 2007, 11:51 PM  
Are Paradise & Queenstown hill not already Bruce McLeods personal maps? And Svend has started making his map. I think that idea could have potential.

Show Profile  stu barr Posted: 14 March 2007, 2:49 AM  
i don't think there would be many people/groups who could make entire maps and events, but buying/leasing maps for events off clubs may be a way to do it.

clubs whose numbers have diminished (south waikato/central north island for example) but still have a number of good areas that need updating could put their efforts into re-making their maps to attract event organisers to their terrain. this would potentially bring bigger events to their regions and hopefully boost their club memberships, without the soul-destroying efforts of one or two volunteers...

This message was edited by stu barr on 14 March 2007, 12:00 PM

Show Profile  nick Posted: 14 March 2007, 9:30 AM  
from a competitor perspective, under a private event mgt model we could also anticipate a massive hike in entry fees.

perhaps it would be worth it?

yet another debate for orienteering to face... currently fees are very cheap relative to the labour and expertise required to create an event. And, relative to O's competitor outdoor/adventure sports - eg: compare the $75 i've paid just to run from Whangaparaoa to Devonport this Saturday... with the $90 fee for seven awesome O races over four days at Waitangi.

I'm not crying out for my favourite sport to become more expensive but i would certainly consider paying more for quality events if that money would help grow the sport. Not at all keen on just lining someone elses pocket though.

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 14 March 2007, 1:17 PM  
The current OY series for each district, followed by area championships seems to work well. The summer park comps work well if you can get evenings free, especially to other interested athletes, but what real purpose are the multiday events trying to cater for? (NZ Champs excluded) I'm not suggesting at all that they suck, because they don't. But if they had a higher profile, like focussing on high standards of technical excellence, or bringing on more importance for results, say super series championships, or NZ Mid year champs, followed by NZ End of year champs, or a giant super series for each grade, allowing more events to be missed.
This is probably sounding a bit dodgy but what really I'm getting at is when events have more importance they create more excitment, competition and excellence. Would't it make more sense to put more efforts to these type of events than to waste time with promotion and club event type things where hardly anyone turns up and efforts are not rewarding. We would need to make sure that our high profile events also cater for newcomers, without pre entry. pretty sure we would have more luck trying to inspire a potential new O'er this way than the more traditional manner.

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 14 March 2007, 1:45 PM  
It's getting a bit of topic now but often these adventure racing events have prize money, they also don't try to target families or the 'sport for life' philosophy. They are generally individual or a small series event in their own right. They do seem to attract hords of ambitious terrain runners out off their couches. Why? Because it's not on every weekend and each event has a high profile to which a reasonable training effort is required. The competitors also love adventure in nice terrain. These events are marketed at Gyms and fitness clubs all around the country using high quality brochures displaying marketable images. Those interested in these sports could be potential O'ers if we could market better. Imitation is the highest form of flattery!

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 14 March 2007, 3:49 PM  
I reckon private event management is the way to go. It is in the organisers best interest to attract as many people as possible so they will earn more money. They will therefore be motivated to publicise the event as much as possible.

Club organisers are only interested in making sure the controls are in the right place.

Everyday I get bombarded with so many press releases about (privately run) sports events and emails reminding me about up coming events. Can't remember the last time I saw an orienteering press release, must have been a looong time ago.

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