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Show Profile  Bryan Posted: 18 May 2005, 7:30 AM  
Normally, I don't say much about courses as I know how much hard work goes into events.

I don't know whether the organisers of OY 2 (Wanda) have received this feedback already.

I hope they take it constructively.

Some of the problems were:
- Fenceless maps for the top courses ran out. I ran on a fenced map but earlier runners didn't.
- I saw the top two courses - both had a few large dog legs on them.
- The start and finish involved dead running (start was on a flat paddock and the finish control could be seen for miles) of over 2km (my course was 7.5km)
- The level of my course was barely above orange with most controls sited on very large features.
- The start time list had time intervals of 4m, 1m, and 3m. When I informed an organiser I was told
to write the time (12.37) and go to the start. Of course, my time had to change because of the 3m countdown timer clock.
- The control circles on the master map were off centre and too large. I picked this up and was able
to compensate but others I spoke to could not.
- On several reentrant controls there were many reentrants but this was not shown on the descriptions.
- One control was described as a depression but the only depression was right on the edge of the circle.

There were a large number of DNF's in the top course.

I'm curious to know if the planner and controller were inexperienced - I hope they will learn from this event.

Show Profile  mark Posted: 18 May 2005, 7:55 AM  
You're right, it was a shit event.
The red course I did would have been orange even with an unfenced map.

I have been to a few events over the last couple of years where they have run out of maps for some courses. One of the problems with OCAD combined with stingy people in charge of printing the maps.
With them charging $10 for a map they should have been able to afford to print a few more.

And just to add to the shitness of the event they added 6 minutes onto my time in the results.

Show Profile  JLS Posted: 18 May 2005, 3:06 PM  

I accept the criticisms of the courses, and I gree that they should have been better. Both Tony van Dyk and myself are relatively inexperienced, having not done an event of this size before. I believe that I have learnt some important lessons from talking to orienteers who experienced problems or offered advice.

I apologise if you felt disappointed by the level of difficulty and the quality of the master maps/control descriptions. The map presented opportunities to make the red courses more challenging, which could have been taken.


The number of people who turned up to this event was far in excess of our expectations, so while I am pleased with the participation, it did mean that we were embarrased by running out of maps (though the print run had been increased twice from the oringinal estimate).

If you believe that your result is not correctly recored, then please give me your details and I will investigate.


Show Profile  mark Posted: 19 May 2005, 1:42 AM  
Don't be emabarassed. Organisers run out of maps all the time with OCAD.
We should go back to the days of printing thousands of maps at a time.

Show Profile  AlanHorn Posted: 19 May 2005, 2:02 AM  
Pre-printing thousands of maps is only cost effective if they are of areas that dont change over time. Otherwise you are going to have to spend 15 minutes copying map corrections at events. And there will be large areas of the map that can't be used as controls shouldnt be in "corrected" areas.

If you've read the latest Punch mag, WilliamP noticed on is trip to England, that at one event they were printing maps at the event (with the courses on them). Needs a decent printer an power supply of course.

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 19 May 2005, 2:06 AM  
I think for events of OY standard or below there is no harm is using slightly older versions of maps...we used to do it and it worked.

From my experience it also makes things easier for planners, especially when low-key/coaching there a 50-50 solution?

Show Profile  mark Posted: 19 May 2005, 2:32 AM  
I'd rather do map corrections than have to run a different course because they ran out of maps.

15 minutes is a lot of map corrections!

This message was edited by mark on 19 May 2005, 10:33 AM

Show Profile  AlanHorn Posted: 19 May 2005, 4:01 AM  
Well okay - a few corrections isnt a problem. I was thinking back to the worst case Ive seen. It was an old WOC map with no ocad version and we wanted to use up the pre-printed ones. After adding the 20-30 corrections, then the course, the map was almost unreadable.

These days WOC tends to print about 200 copies for any OY or SS event. But we also bring along the left over maps from the previous time it was used.
Thus if we do run out of a variant then we can offer a fenced new version or a slighty older unfenced version.

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 19 May 2005, 4:06 AM  
My memories of the days of map corrections were that generally people didn't bother, unless it was like a big track that really helped you. We just coped with the information that we had.

Big things like felled blocks of forest are easy to cope with.

I think ideally clubs should keep 2 years of stocks of the maps, and only go to updated OCAD for major events. This would also reduce pressure on planners who are now expected to be mappers as well.

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 19 May 2005, 5:05 AM  
Thats why south island events are normaly shit

Show Profile  mark Posted: 19 May 2005, 5:38 AM  
What have south island events got to do with it retard?

Show Profile  Chris Forne Posted: 19 May 2005, 7:28 AM  
I think going back to mass printing hundreds of maps is an extremely stupid idea.

Firstly most maps, especially around Canterbury require a reasonable amount of updating. Using old maps just encourages poor mapping and controlling standards.

Secondly mass printing maps does not save any paper or money on unused maps, in fact it is likely to exaggerate the problem, as instead of having 50 maps left over, you may well end up having 500 left over maps, after doing some major updating.

Mass printing maps was a result of old printing technologies, where it was nearly as cheap to print 1000, as it was to print 100. This no longer applies, so why use out-of-date maps for no purpose.

Show Profile  Chris Forne Posted: 19 May 2005, 7:36 AM  
In the past when our club has run out of maps, we simply reuse maps, collecting them from a few of the early runners and passing them on to those starting later. Sure it's not ideal, but it doesn't happen too often, and only affects a few people.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 19 May 2005, 12:17 PM  
Go OCAD, Go Pre-Marked Maps, Go Good Courses!

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 19 May 2005, 2:06 PM  
Go Technology and SportIdent!

Show Profile  DJ Posted: 19 May 2005, 2:36 PM  
but it doesn't happen too often, and only affects a few people.

These few people could easily be turned away from the sport of
Orienteering! And it's not like the sport of Orienteering In New Zealand can afford this.

It's easy to talk about technology and the likes of sport ident but, the problem really is a shortage of people who can set good courses and who can produce quality maps.

I can appreciate the effort that goes into course setting and the potential problems that can occur. At the same time though there needs to be a consistency of setting and controlling for all events, otherwise it makes it hard to treat orienteering as a serious sport.
i.e the rules and guidelines should be followed.

It's pretty hard to imagine a game of rugby without a ref...

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