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3 Untimed legs in nationals sprint

Show Profile  camd Posted: 12 April 2019, 9:19 PM  
??? I can't see how this is allowed under ONZ foot-o competition rules? Is there a limit on how long I can take to do these legs?

How on earth is this fair at a nationals - all you have to do is wait for your fastest competitor to restart and get a tow all the way to the finish...

Show Profile  o4life Posted: 13 April 2019, 12:38 AM  
Have to agree. If you need untimed legs on a sprint course for H&S reasons then maybe you should have chosen a more suitable map in the first place. Clear potential to seriously affect results.

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 13 April 2019, 9:20 AM  
It would be good to see some rules added in future to make it fair. For example having a map change at any re-start of timing, or a fixed stand-down time. It would increase the logistics but maybe that is the trade-off.

That they should have chosen a more suitable map sounds a bit short sighted. I doubt there even is a more suitable sprint map, this is the South Island, not Auckland. There are plenty of rules which have gone the wayside in the name of "progress". Just look at the entire relay event LOL.

The biggest deterrent to abusing the system at this stage is probably peer pressure and that will likely be enough to create a fair event. Anyone openly abusing the system will likely be mocked and ridiculed for the rest of their orienteering career. Luckily orienteering is still a gentleman's sport.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 13 April 2019, 10:29 PM  
Yes o4life is a bit harsh, I would be quite happy to solve the logistical problems in order to use a good area. But there ARE other issues to think about. Less blatant than waiting for a tow, can I maximise the crossing time in order to recover, and read ahead on the map?

Show Profile  Tane Cambridge Posted: 17 April 2019, 5:07 PM  
I must admit I am pretty disappointed that we have resorted to untimed legs. I have expressed my concern at the willingness/eagerness to use them several times over the past few years. In my opinion, H&S legislation has taken over peoples reasonable thinking in a lot of cases, for example, crossing under a low bridge is just part of orienteering....

Two points to make clear though

1. IOF rules allow for untimed legs

2. Its the controllers responsibility to ensure safety and fairness.

Also to add some background to why untimed legs were included at nationals this year:
A person was hit by a car and killed at the SH1 crossing point last year.
A child was hit by a car in Akaroa during an orienteering event several years ago and the police were involved, which has left some planners and controllers a bit scared (especially those risk adverse safety conscious Civil Engineers!). I hope they are scared that someone is going to get hurt rather than scared that they are going to get in trouble because someone got hurt!

Show Profile  camd Posted: 17 April 2019, 7:54 PM  
Thanks for the clarification Tane - I'm still pretty against the use of any untimed legs as they introduce a lot of percieved unfairness. I wasn't aware when I wrote this that the IOF allowed them (having never seen one used overseas).

Making the leg under the bridge timed is a good move - even if it was somewhat unsafe, surely it's difficult to argue this is any worse than say an untaped 2m high cliff on a forest map. It was also almost certain to introduce strong perceptions of unfairness - hopefully now the race will feel (and be) fair.

Makes sense that the remaining 2 road crossings have to be untimed given those circumstances - hopefully they are short and any possible advantages on these will be minimised. In the future though surely for a national championship it should be a criterium to choose areas where untimed legs are not necessary? I would prefer to run in a less interesting map where fairness is assured then compromise fairness for a little more intricacy...

Show Profile  pcbrent Posted: 19 April 2019, 10:07 AM  
Ive noticed that it is quite a long sprint, so I'm glad these rest legs are included.

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 21 April 2019, 10:08 AM  
They clearly weren't enough for you Brent.

This is the IOF rule for those interested:

24.15 The results must be based on competitors’ times for the whole course. It is forbidden to eliminate sections of the course on the basis of split times unless the section has been specified in advance (e.g. a short section containing a busy road crossing).

I think untimed legs have the potential to be a great innovation provided they are done fairly as per my original post.

Would be interested to hear further opinion now the event has been. Have the untimed legs been removed from the official winsplits results? Would be good to see some transparency to that. Name and shame.




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