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Encouragement

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 26 February 2013, 8:10 AM  
Successful companies grow by offering something the market wants.

I'm not saying Mikes or anyone else's idea is a bad idea, but what are we trying to fix. School numbers are really good, there is no problem here, the problem initially mentioned is the reattainment of these numbers once they leave school. I dont see how creating more representative spots for school kids is going to help this, there will still only be 6+6 spots available for JWOC once they leave school and then most probably only 1+1 spots for WOC (under the new qualification systems) after that. So trying to tease them with representation honours to stay in the sport is false hope, and more likely to put them off after being 'easy' to bloody difficult to make teams. (I'm not saying the expansion of the competition shouldn't happen, just shouldn't happen for this reason)
The solution is offering this target market something they want, so that they stay in the sport, and some ideas on here have mentioned things that will do this (beer is by far going to be the biggest winner).

Show Profile  KM Posted: 26 February 2013, 11:59 AM  
Alright then greg, your shout for all juniors aged between 15-20 after the next big event

Show Profile  addison Posted: 26 February 2013, 1:16 PM  
Some fantastic ideas and comments here being floated about. It's really awesome to see - keep it up and keep the ideas coming!

Mike, regarding your ideas - great. Lets get these sorts of ideas out there and then we, as the NZOF, can look at the practicalities and discuss with Orienteering Australia these types of things. Blair and I have discussed ideas about increasing the contact between Australia and New Zealand at Schools Level, and Australia is keen on potentially having a team, or teams, coming to NZ for something regular.

If we look at countries that are a bit stronger than us they do have a strong regional structure and perhaps we should focus domestically on getting some form of regional championship for teams happening. We need to make it sustainable and here for the long term, whilst also making people feel inspired to want to make a team for it. Perhaps we could have a regional championships, with regional selections etc?

Our regional event could then also be open to Australian States to come over and compete in. But we need to think about where our strengths are (and markets which respond strongly to school kids), and one of these is absolutely Sprint Orienteering. Sprint the Bay type concept could be the answer and this could really inspire a lot of kids and be the niche that will pull more Australian's over.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 26 February 2013, 2:49 PM  
Soooo Val starts the thread saying we need to improve, and Rob says nah things are going quite well. Then Val says why do we need to change and Rob says he quite likes the new ideas. Heh heh.

I'm for stronger regional activity. Three regions.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 26 February 2013, 3:14 PM  
Simon mentioned SS sprint orienteering, and I know he's keen on SS team orienteering too (short rogaines). A question in my mind is should we try and partition the year, perhaps beginning with predominantly urban (eg school campus sprints) and then traditional rural (middle and long) and then team (which might have a bit in common with SS adventure racing)? Or do we just let them happen in parallel as enthusiasts see fit?

Show Profile  blairtrewin Posted: 26 February 2013, 5:00 PM  
As Simon posted above, Australia's keen to start sending teams to NZ on a regular basis, every year if we can. This year was a good start (and once our junior team started to learn how to orienteer in NZ terrain - by which time you'd already walloped us in the Schools Test - we started to get some quite decent results from them).

The structure of the Australian Schools Championships is something we have only limited control over because it's officially a School Sport Australia event and we have to operate under their rules (although sometimes we stretch them a bit), which provide for NZ national teams but not for anything beyond that. We've also had to fight pretty hard at times to keep all of the states on board when their state school sport body doesn't want to support us (as sometimes happens if, for example, the rugby types hold sway in that body) - for example we had to do some serious political arm-twisting to keep Queensland in a couple of years ago. (Our capacity to do political arm-twisting on that occasion wasn't hurt by the fact that one of the senior state government ministers at the time was a Queensland schools team member in the early 1990s :-).

Show Profile  GeneO Posted: 26 February 2013, 5:28 PM  
Firstly I was going to say what Greg said, but instead I'll just add to it.

While sending some more people to Australia may have very small effect on reattainment, building a regional competition that aligns with the next level of competition could be a more direct approach to the problem. There is the potential to align 3 regions at the school level to the 3 Silva Super Series regions.

A clear pathway of representation through the grades could be based on a school to junior elite to elite arrangement. If school kids are exposed (visually) to the next step (competitive and social) before the end of school then they may be more likely to stick with it. Innovative ways to expose younger orienteers to the next level up could involve consistant schools competitions at multiday and Super Series events, flashy exhibition races at these events, and combined social and prize giving events where the gap between elite level and school level can disappear. I think that last idea (without directly encouraging under age drinking), is the most important as it doesn't only apply to more competitive people who want to make a representative team.

Missing steps are pretty obvious currently, as sometimes I don't even know what is happening with Super Series, so I'm not sure how school kids are meant to see the next step.

Show Profile  MikeB Posted: 27 February 2013, 2:34 AM  
Good to hear an Aussie perspective in all this, thanks Blair and good to see you and Simon have had some discussions to help further our schools' competition both ways.

I like the three step pathway Gene mentions then the kids can see where they are heading. Incorporate this along with a competition against Australia once or twice a year (on a home and away basis) and there is something very solid in place, These could be wrapped around an event like our nationals and the Aussie champs (then they are roughly 6 months apart) but seperate to the Southern Cross Challenge, if that wasn't going to work, because of the reasons Blair mentioned.

The social side of all this would then really come into play where ongoing friendships are made on both sides of the ditch that could last for years. CER at it's best.

Show Profile  Dwayne Posted: 27 February 2013, 3:20 AM  
Gene's point got me thinking...
How about regional relay teams (aligned with current super series regions) with 3 members 1 each from senior elite, junior elite and schools. Maybe even 2 from schools (Senior/Junior). There could be quite a few teams made up this way in each region - involving lots of upcoming school kids.
A problem I see often is the kids won't approach the seniors or junior elite (and vice versa). A setup like this could be a catalyst for getting them more attached to the sport by encouraging some cross age grade relationships.


Show Profile  darren Posted: 27 February 2013, 3:40 AM  
Dwayne, there have been cross age grade relationships going on for years

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 27 February 2013, 3:52 AM  
Fix the Superseries

Show Profile  GeneO Posted: 27 February 2013, 4:52 AM  
There are often cross grade relationships between people at the more competitive end of the sport, but I don't see them anywhere else. What are competitive people doing that less competitive people aren't? (Exclusively considering school grades, juniors grades and elites)

Possible reasons why more competitive people make cross grade relationships:
- They are more naturally sociable
- *They have been on a trip such as a D Squad camp
- They get selected in a team and people then know there name
- **They attend more races and so meet more people
- ***They meet elites who look at results take interest in them

Possible reasons why less competitive people don't have cross grade relationships:
- They are shy
- *They have never been on a trip with lots of different people
- They never get their name mentioned so no one knows who they are
- **They do not attend many races
- ***Elites don't know they exist

So there is obviously differing levels of truth in these. The ones that are likely to be true need to have a corresponding solution.
For example,
* Combine schools races with multiday events and have all grades stay together.
**Further more, organise these well so it is easy for schools to send large numbers
***Feature elites as guests during these trips and get them interacting with all ages in the form of coaching, back yard cricket, motivating past experiences, wild stories about past events, post race technical discussion, and maybe a cold beer.

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 27 February 2013, 8:55 AM  
Superseries this year will be M/W18 in an effort to try and get closer integration and a better flow between school leavers and elites.

I wanted to have the secondary school races as rounds of superseries but eventually was decided to leave the focus on the kids and the ss titles they are racing for.

The issue is man power. I have handed the organisation over because I am too busy. We need:

1. Regional coordinators for superseries (media/travel/general butt kicking of people to commit to things).
2. Easy forums for contact (AOTC facebook page for example)
3. Welcoming groups that are not exclusive

This will strengthen domestic racing and firm up the numbers in the grades. I do like the sound of a tour to Europe every 3 years or so for 17-20 year olds. I'll even put my hand up to help organise one for the year JWOC is in Norway.

Show Profile  Jane H Posted: 27 February 2013, 10:19 AM  
Thomas, you should see the smile on Callum's face now ...

But if anyone is in doubt that this should happen lets go back to the top of this page and consider seriously... does the market want it? All someone (who?) needs to do is devise a survey and ask Linda Smith to email it out to the NZOF 2012 camp participants over 15 years olds now and get their response.

I think there could be some pre-requisites placed on going on an Eurpoean O-Tour, like say.....

- be the setter of an O-club Summer Series event within two years of going on any trip
- collect controls at a major O-event
- attend at least one NZOF Junior Camp
- prepare an O-map of a school, park or similar area
- consider being a coach at a NZOF Camp

The idea is they spirit of O and experience by working with those ahead of them in the O-NZ world.

Also realise there may be a few parents tagging along with this tour group ... like the group going to Portugal World Schools Champs in April - something like 25 kids and 15 adults all up!

Show Profile  Jane H Posted: 28 February 2013, 1:33 AM  
Oh, and there were 12 HBOC members less at our Summer Series event last night ... all gone off to uni ... half of them in Auckland hostels now (all without a car). So here is a challenge for you members up there. If they turn up to an event igcognito that's their choice but if they turn up in HBOC tops that's code for "someone shout me a drink or offer me a ride home"!


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