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Where have all the orienteers gone!?

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 24 May 2010, 10:32 AM  
some of the huge gaps through the year might be due to peoples workload and no one wanting to put their hand up (I may be wrong?, so is there a possibility of slotting in some (lots of) really basic o-days technology wise, set some really cool courses but don't bother with sportident or preprinted maps. mass starts, loops, relays training... (although i only see this being attractive if these events are in nice technical terrain for the hardcore enthusiasts, obviously easy courses can be set too)

The only problem is the cost of forest use and access issues, sounds like we need to find a way through this problem before it gets worse, not that i have any idea what is going on with it.

personally i feel like i just train for nothing half the time as some months there is one event or none at all, i guess the elites who travel more have a more fulfilling calendar, but what about the 'bread and butter' orienteers.


Show Profile  rob.g Posted: 24 May 2010, 10:44 AM  
The workload for setting tradional events with lots of courses seems greater than ever, esp with all the ocad work, and our club is running out of volunteers. I know we are not alone there.

You might be onto something Paul.

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 24 May 2010, 10:56 AM  
my last splur does read very well and i don't know how to edit it now, but what i also meant was that you can still set all sorts of interesting course formats such as mass starts, loops, micro-o,head to head with people of your equal ranking, even mini club team relays -how cool would that be, and it could be so much fun as well as great training. We have these great maps that don't get enough use sometimes

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 24 May 2010, 11:05 AM  
You maybe excited about those Paul, but as I said earlier, most Auckland Orienteers are stupid, and things like this have attracted bugger all people in the past, especially relays. Most old fogies around these parts want their typical 60 min, same leg length, circle shaped course that will earn them the same amount of OY points every time to put towards their certificate at the end of the year (because everyone gets one with all the age grades and different categories)

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 24 May 2010, 11:17 AM  
then if they don't show up it's their loss, it's probably about marketing, which is probably one of the reasons why this latest rogain is getting good numbers

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 24 May 2010, 11:29 AM  
If people dont show up, its the club that wears the loss

Show Profile  robbie Posted: 24 May 2010, 12:46 PM  
Hi Pete Thanks for coming to our club/promo event last sunday. Yes we had a small turn out compared with the normal.Probably 50/60 and we had 150 this time last year. Reasons 24hr famine, netball, hockey, rowing all these sports have an effect on our attendance. When students get involved in a team sport this also takes the parents with them. As these winter sports end their season our numbers tend to go up. Also at our last club meeting we discussed our marketing for these events and compared with the advertising we do for our summer series we do a poor job.The advertising for the rogaines are a very good example of how it should be done and I believe is the reason for the good turn outs they are getting.

Show Profile  robbie Posted: 24 May 2010, 2:33 PM  
Greg your like a Yo Yo bouncing all over the show
Pete was on about regular orienteers being a no show at the start of the year. Not about OYs points or certificates or circle courses.
Im with you Paul some events with variety at the start of the year, and some decent promotion.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 24 May 2010, 2:43 PM  
Got to love a good old firey discussion.

I think we have made life too difficult for ourselves these days. What Rob has done with his rogaine series is actually simplified a whole heap of things. Is it really extra promotion, or is just more consistent and coherrant?

We as a sport need to get with the times:
- less people are willing to travel distances
- access costs are going to be rising
- people expect consistent and coherrant promotion (website, email)
- less orienteers are willing to volunteer their time
- rogaines get good numbers of new people

So what does this tell us?
- hold events close to the masses (in town)
- try to use as much public areas as possible (park/street etc)
- setup a good email system and be professional. write news on websites etc
- run events which take less time to organise, without reducing quality (i.e. rogaines?)
- work to the masses and make money out of it as a club

Show Profile  robbie Posted: 24 May 2010, 3:01 PM  
Yes Simon spot on
Greg think of the camps we have run. Fun activities--no controls just toilet paper---the kids loved it.Toilet paper might be going to far but a program should have variety and some suprise element.One problem we have is the program is put together far too late in the year so maybe Pete you have done us all a favour. Lets start putting it together now!

Show Profile  mick finn Posted: 24 May 2010, 3:05 PM  
Nice summary of some interesting points Simon! Another feature of the rogaines might be that its a Series..more social, more chances to improve or win spotties etc etc

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 24 May 2010, 3:08 PM  
I never said I didn't like them, I said "most Auckland Orienteers are stupid, and things like this have attracted bugger all people in the past, especially relays"

Training days, relays and 'abnormal' events dont attack the numbers in Auckland, so why should a club be willing to put these events on (using up limited volunteer resources) when different formats (and time frames) reap better rewards

If you want to know what Im going on about with the certificates and OY points maybe you should pay attention at one of your own committee meetings and then stop your members sending out the most pointless, waste of time emails ever

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 24 May 2010, 3:28 PM  
Simon is listening to the customers.

To paraphrase Tony's Tyre Service:
Rule 1: the customer is always right
Rule 2: if the customer is stupid, refer to Rule 1

It's a very useful credo. But the next level is to look at the various groups of "customers" we have. The best/easiest events and timing to provide for each group may be different.

1. Orienteers who want a "season". May be a very small group. Aucklanders don't want one, Wellington had an OY in Feb and 50 people came. Answer as above may be the minimalist event on good areas, I've always been amazed at what we can do on tour with planning the night before and toilet paper controls. Maybe it's squads not clubs who provide this.

2. The rest of the orienteering population. They speak with their feet. 50 people to an OY early in the year. 445 to the nationals far from home. Doesn't make sense unless we throw away the supposed link between the two. It may be the wealth of other activities around, and when they occur. But rather than deploring it, lets just run events where/when people want them.

3. Now a most important group. The non-orienteering population. Let go of this "not proper orienteering" stuff. All human-powered navigating with a map is orienteering. Experiment with style and time of year, and do more of the things that work. And which are easy to provide. It's not rocket science.

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 24 May 2010, 3:43 PM  
so what can we fill these gaping big holes with? It needs to be easy to set up, challenging, sociable, part of a series and have variety...

A new series pehaps, call it 'that time of the month'or 'train your brain', you turn up to a cool map on time and find out what you'll be doing. mostly keeping things simple technology wise, other times it may work out that it was the prior weeks oy, still left out, you could redo your race in a mass start situation, etc.

surely all the fogies, whoever they are (hell i might be one of them one day?)can be catered for, even in a simple relay event. just make their courses physically easy, maybe two man relays, run two short courses each, against the same people you would normally run against in at an oy. same with the other relay courses/grades.
just thinking out loud

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 24 May 2010, 3:50 PM  
Even part human-powered navigating and part take-a-rest-on-public-transport is orienteering, isn't it Michael?

I'd like to thank Greg and Robbie for filling the void that resulted from the recent ban on Shortland St in my household. Cheers.


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