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JWOC boys nationals grade...

Show Profile  JD Posted: 26 March 2009, 11:47 AM  
who running what? I know tom was going to run elites all the way through. was speaking to james the other day though and he though m20s would be better because its similar to jwoc times, but running elites will help to simulate the pressure of JWOC. what do people think and what grade are you running?

Show Profile  Tane Cambridge Posted: 26 March 2009, 3:56 PM  
I think you should run M20' you can't beat me!

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 26 March 2009, 5:01 PM  
elites. go hard.

Show Profile  Neil K Posted: 27 March 2009, 9:03 AM  
Is Nationals a training event for you? Is JWOC the only event that matters? Is there more pressure from trying to win a title when you should win it or from trying do well when nobody expects you too?

Show Profile  Mike Adams Posted: 27 March 2009, 10:27 AM  
I think you also need to think about whether or not you're going to be able to maintain your racing pace for the duration of the elite races. You don't want to get yourself into a position where the average speed you're going over shorter distances at jwoc is faster than pace you've been orienteering at in elite races here. if you start doing different things in your big races that you've not practiced you getting into dangerous mistake making territory.

Show Profile  Mike Adams Posted: 27 March 2009, 10:31 AM  
may be i should say intensity or average heart rate because you're pace is going to change depending on the terrain conditions but you get what i mean you don't want to in position where you race differently in your target races.

Show Profile  James Posted: 27 March 2009, 10:54 AM  
Personally i think that you juniors currently have awesome depth and will provide adequate competition for eachother without stepping up to elites. I also doubt whether most of you have the ability to be competitive for an entire elite long (with a winning time of 90min) similar to michaels point above. I realise that many of you have the ability to smoke the elites in the sprint, but by running M20's you are doing the same course, so can still compare.

I think the most important thing is that you all run the same grade! I know Tom is planning on running M21E for Nats, but until he can confidently say that he can win every junior race discipline, i believe he should run M20. (but i understand if he wanted to run elite for the sprint and defend his crown!)

Also, there has been mention of increased competition by running elites........well the grade is a little down on depth and numbers in comparison to recent years, so not sure if it would provide the same environment as it has previously.

Plus you all still have the option of running against all the elites at Queens Birthday, just prior to leaving for Italy.

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 27 March 2009, 11:40 AM  
With such a strong grade you guys should enjoy being juniors why you still are. You are an elite for a long time. Problem is if one or two people run up then the prestige is gone and you might as well all run up.

That said theres plenty of vultures sniffing around for elite titles this year with the depleted fields, so if one of you runs up and beats Brent in the middle I would be much obliged.

Show Profile  jeffg Posted: 27 March 2009, 11:50 AM  
That would be EWT of 90-100 mins for M21E Nationals long, based on NZ's best orienteers, whether or not they attend.

Show Profile  Jenni Posted: 27 March 2009, 1:56 PM  
I think Carsten's legs look awesome at the moment so he won't be letting anyone away with any gift titles.

Show Profile  Todd Oates Posted: 27 March 2009, 2:47 PM  
Put pressure on yourselves by trying to win M20s. It's the "big race pressure" that tends to get you at JWOC.
I think you should try to simulate JWOC conditions before you get there, race time/length comes into that.
I'm sure Tom has his reasons for running Elites but the general concensus from Neil, Jamie, James and Michael (some of NZ's best Elites) is to stick with 20s. I concur.

Show Profile  Neil K Posted: 27 March 2009, 3:25 PM  
I guess one of my thoughts is that Nationals isn't a training race for JWOC, it is the Nationals. If you want to simulate some other events/set some training exercises that simulate JWOC. If you think you need Nationals elite fields to simulate the pressure of JWOC than I would suggest you haven't been very thoughtful about creating pressure for yourself in all of the orienteering races we've had in the last year...especially the ones you didn't win. Further to that I believe most NZ junior boys don't take there local events seriously enough...that is what leads to them "freaking out" in major races.

Show Profile  darren Posted: 27 March 2009, 3:30 PM  
Maybe it depends on how serious you are about JWOC. The EWT for M20 at JWOC is 70mins. In the last two JWOC long races the winning times were close to bang on and the best NZ males were just over 90mins.

Realistically, if you are aiming for the long race at JWOC (where there is no Qual race) you need to be on your top game for 90mins+.

Another bit reality is that the best NZ M21E males would get a good arse kicking by the top runners at JWOC.

I would say if you can win the Nationals (long)in M21E by 10mins+ you should have really good confidence going into the JWOC long. I'm sure this is what Tom is going to try and do !

In the JWOC middle the EWT is 25mins (I think?), but best NZ males are well over 30mins (if they qualify for the A final). So same story, running 21E in the NZ Nationals is a better simulation for JWOC in terms of time and probably pressure, as you know there are many others that can beat you.

Some of you guys have the talent to win 21E at the National, (Tom did last year!)so I say run up!

These other guys are just scared that you are going to beat them, that's why they are telling you to run 20's

Show Profile  darren Posted: 27 March 2009, 3:32 PM  
Neil is the most scared because it is his big comeback race

Show Profile  Mike Adams Posted: 27 March 2009, 7:01 PM  
I wasn't advocating one grade or another but suggesting one factor that i think is really important to take into account. I guess the most important thing is that it is clear in your head what you want to achieve at nationals and how that will serve your jwoc ambitions. You can run different grades for different races, for instance if you think you'd easily be able to hold your optimum average pace for the sprint and middle in the elite grade, then the pressure of pitting yourself against a bigger field of experienced orienteers may be really useful. Then in the long if you think you'd be able to maintain focus and optimum average pace for the entire duration of the m20 long and you are less confident of your ability to do that in m21e then run in younger grade - personally, in that case, i think you'd be better served by the potential of having a positive long experience which will boost your confidence for that distance heading into jwoc.

Show Profile  Neil K Posted: 27 March 2009, 7:09 PM  
Naah Darren, I'm not scared. I know I have no chance. It is a statistical fact that I have never won a race that Darren Ashmore has turned up to. I can't win. However Brent appears to be a raging hot favourite. If you look at the entry list and discard any south islanders (who everyone knows are hopeless in Woodhill) than there aren't many people capable of competing against the double world champion of cool and adventure racing.

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