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Are we wasting Grant Money?

Show Profile  nick Posted: 14 December 2008, 3:59 PM  
oh yeah i was going to suggest that:

increased membership may feed nicely into our ability to raise our own money; and to secure funding grants; and into hp; and maybe even into volunteer power.

and the money could buy new maps. and support our stars at jwoc/woc

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 15 December 2008, 1:16 AM  
simon, event director is cheap to get, but they take a cut of transactions, like 1% or something. At the moment they are trying to write the program so that people can enter with a number that has all of their details, we already have numbers in orienteering (si sticks) so would work perfrectly for us.

I like the fact that someone is saying orienteering is not going to die, its agree! everyone talks as if weve got our backs against the wall and were down to our last dozen orienteers. we're not, its perhaps just time for orienteering to look at the wider outdoor and adventure market and see how we can capitalise better on a huge growth area in terms of participation.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 15 December 2008, 2:56 AM  
Val: they probably won't take any notice, but it is possible to make it on the world scene without going to JWOC several times. Or at all. Example, Antonia. OK that was a while ago, but I'm impressed by Todd Oates improvement after a decent tour of Euro events.

Just thank your lucky stars there isn't a world under-17...

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 15 December 2008, 3:00 AM  
Woops, Todd did go to JWOC. Where's that edit button when you need it!

Show Profile  mark Posted: 15 December 2008, 3:33 AM  
Rachel Smith must be another example of someone making it without going to JWOC, since she isn't on HeadHoncho's list.

Show Profile  mark Posted: 15 December 2008, 3:36 AM  
Didn't Ben Bocock go to JWOC as well?

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 15 December 2008, 6:53 AM  
"we already have numbers in orienteering (si sticks) "

Yes we do, but they are only assigned to a person for one event. there's nothing stopping a family member or friend using the si card at the next event which would create havoc in the entry system!

SI card numbers are therefore not unique

Show Profile  addison Posted: 15 December 2008, 9:01 AM  
I love it when someone comes in with my requests :-) Thanks Rob for doing the analysis. That still is a relatively huge attrition rate, just not as huge as I thought it would be - which is pleasing.

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 15 December 2008, 9:20 AM  
neil didnt go to jwoc

Show Profile  addison Posted: 15 December 2008, 9:44 AM  
Rob - can you include Mark Hudson as still being active, when all he does is chime in on Maptalk? :-)

Show Profile  rob.g Posted: 15 December 2008, 10:29 AM  
Rachel was at JWOC in Belgium with you, Mark, wheras Ben had the best performances you could find for someone that missed, but was only ranked no 7 during the era of Brent, Fraser, Michal, Karl, Stu and you, and you were all on fire for a few years.

Rob C, Todd and Tim still orienteer. I was also surprised at the attrition rate being low, but in more recent years there may have been more drop out.

Show Profile  Hamish Posted: 15 December 2008, 10:50 AM  
I think when you look at attrition rate you should cross out those who don't give back anything to the sport. I think if people have bothered to sponsor you, get grants on your behalf or club's have given you money to go to Aust.SS, JWOC or WOC you have an obligation to 'pay' it back to Orienteering. There is alot of setting, controlling, mapping, co ordinating and committee work to be had. There are a lot of people who do and deserve all the grants they get. People could list them - Simon A, Greg, Neil, Jamie, Martin, Mark, Marquita ... the list is long ... and then there are the ones who don't get the grants who probably deserve them just as much - Michael, Wayne, Rob, Derek, Geoff, Graham, Alan Horn, Inghams, Russell Higham, Selwyn ....the list is longer.
My point is that grant money shouldn't be wasted on low returns. I would put it into things like Nationals, TONIC, Waitangi and QB. Reward those people who are putting in the hard yards by rewarding their projects.

Show Profile  PaulS Posted: 15 December 2008, 4:13 PM  
This looks like a good debate. It almost reminds me of my heyday on Maptalk. Anyway, I fully support the comments about the need to reinvigorate I hope someone with the time and expertise to put all these great ideas into action has seen the advertisement for NZOF webmaster and applies:

Paul Smith (NZOF Webmaster 2003 - 2008)

Show Profile  Casser Posted: 16 December 2008, 3:01 AM  
I think the cue here is that Grant money is split in two ways - one sum for National Projects (very small part of the over all money) that can be applied to by National Organisations which for example could be used for a National Project like supporting our teams for JWOC/WOC/World Games/ National IT projects - and the major sum of money for local projects that local groups can apply for like mapping/events/hardware.

I'm not really sure that I see that there is much to discuss - but I have not followed the discussion the whole way either.

One thing that could be good for local clubs is maybe some named consultants to approach to help out when they have to make their own applications at the local level.

There is enough options for everyone to apply for locally though there is not too many for the National Level Applications but then again there are not that many different projects to apply for nationally anyways. Or is there?

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 16 December 2008, 4:07 AM  
Hey great discussion, awesome.

Honcho, that is a lovely and simple piece of analysis. The myth is exposed. Please note Todd Oates is in the NZ elite team so definitely active. Or better be otherwise the manager will whip his ass.

It interests me that if you conducted the same analysis for PM scholarship recievers (by far the bigger of the financial incentives over the last ten years), you would have a much higher rate of attrition.

Val. No easy answers other than that in my observation top sports people that are funded to death don't necessarily seem to be happy. The struggle is part of the fun and fulfillment.

PaulI, couldn't agree more. I have been saying for years that we can't underestimate the need for at least 2-3 (or 1) exciting new map in an exciting new area to keep our experienced and skilled members motivated for orienteering. You can't measure this benefit purely by numbers attending a specific event or cost recovery of a map.

Its about providing for our old hands who have seen it all the new experiences that attracted them to O in the first place. I think it is bizarre that the NZOF with all of its bureaucracy and projects does nothing to help mapping.

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