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jwoc trials

Show Profile  Hamish Posted: 2 January 2008, 9:21 PM  
I am no longer Club President. I think they are suggesting a relay team and a reserve Rob. I agree entirely Simon. What I would personally like to see is that the selection process is better. Don't send people who aren't up to it and all the experience in the world won't get them there. They just don't have the X factor to be at the top of this sport. By voting for the remit we were in affect forcing the NZOF to limit the team. Quantity goes down and quality goes up. Only the best get selected and not just the ones who can afford it. It should be an honour to get selected. You should have to train your butt off and really fight for that spot. I want our sport to be recognised by other sports as a real sport not just seen as some 'weird hobby'. To do that you don't put NZOF money into people who don't have the X factor to be world beaters but into finding those kids who have got the X factor. You find those world beaters and then we will get some respect. NZOF could do a lot worse than to pay that money to the likes of Geoff Morrison to go round schools and coach and promote. That's how HBOC has found so many top juniors.
Sorry got off the topic a bit. Let's hope Waitangi is a great success, the best team gets selected and they do really well in Sweden (not just have a good time!)

Show Profile  Neil K Posted: 2 January 2008, 9:52 PM  
Just a little background information. In Lithuania in 2006, (Lithuania is a very cheap country) entry fees for JWOC were about $800 NZ each. So for our team of 11 that was about 9 grand. Under the new remit the NZOF policy is to pay for this fee.

Then there is WOC entry fees to pay for too. It is quite natural for the NZOF to decide that it isn't a priority to spend our money on 'half serious' youths doing there OE. But I don't see why if they are NZ best juniors they shouldn't be able to represent their country at their own expense. The remit should be repealed it immediatly before it prevents us giving a great junior a chance.


Show Profile  SJ Posted: 2 January 2008, 10:09 PM  
Personally, I think it is a pity that there has been a "limit" placed on team numbers by the council. And quite frankly the idea that the financial strain on the NZOF of paying the entry fees for JWOC is the reason that this limit has been come up with is ridiculous in my opinion. Last year, the contribution of the NZOF due to the remit was $60 per athlete for the 'entry fees', which with 12 members came well inside the funding they had allocated. I don't believe the remit has any effect.

Surely the decision as to whether 4 men and 4 women or 6 and 6 or 2 and 5 or whatever mixture would be up to the selection panel to select the athletes meeting the selection criteria - I would have thought that is the whole idea of having selectors? How can the NZOF council post a limit on the team numbers, it just doesn't make any sense for it to work like that.

Particularly at this point in time where the competition for places and quality of trialists would be arguably one of the highest ever in terms of JWOCs NZ has attended - wouldn't we want to give these athletes international experience and the desire to continue competing at a high level by sending them to a JWOC? I think part of the reason the limit has been concocted is because the NZOF believes that some of the athletes we have sent in the past haven't been up to the standard and they now want to tighten up. Rather than imposing a certain limit on team numbers as they have done, wouldn't a better way of achieving this be to create a selection policy which outlines the standard to be met for the NZ team and then select by it? Oh wait, don't we already have one of those...?

Show Profile  SJ Posted: 2 January 2008, 10:12 PM  
That's what I believed from the remit too Neil, but apparently the wording of the remit means the only pay the actual 'entry fees' which does not include the accommodation costs for the week of JWOC as is called the 'entry fee' by organisers. I really don't think this remit has any financial bearing on anything.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 3 January 2008, 7:36 AM  
Thats just because you voted for it Simon. Told you this would happen did I not?

I don't believe they can split the overall 'entry fee' for jwoc, so that you get itemised accommodation, entry fees, transport etc. Its all the big one fee.


I did notice that NZOF has commissioned an endorsed athletes policy for its WOC competitors, why could it not do the same for JWOC. Get rid of the remit, bring in an endorsed athletes policy at JWOC so that there is still more money available than normal... and go from there. Then you are not paying for people that in Hamishs opinion do not deserve it, and you end up rewarding great performances or your top runners prior to leaving.

I have for a few years been thinking that a two-tier system for JWOC would be ideal, the endorsed athlete system getting rolled out for JWOC as well as WOC would basically end up doing this.

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 3 January 2008, 9:19 AM  
I agree with hamish. JWOC should be an honour, its representing your country, bikenz often chooses not to send people to worlds if it thinks that the domestic standard is not high enough.
JWOC is not about giving people the "desire to continue competing at a high level". If you go to jwoc you should already have more than desire.
We are a sport that is going forever be fighting for money from the losers at sparc, we should be spending money gazetted for high performance on high performance!
Simon your idea about the two tier system is a good one.

This message was edited by thomasr on 3 January 2008, 10:20 AM

Show Profile  Jenni Posted: 3 January 2008, 12:25 PM  
PAPO didn't vote for the remit.

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 3 January 2008, 1:18 PM  
Theres some pretty ingenuous (as opposed to ingenius) comments flying around this thread.

The remit is ill thought out arse, there is no doubt about that, but there was to my knowledge no hidden agenda behind it to limit team size...the remit was created by a parent of a former junior who thought the NZOF should provide more recognition to its representative teams.

Problems with the remit, re binding the NZOF into financial obligations were identified at an early stage by Stuart Payne and others including myself who spoke about against it. I think these problems have been largely circumvented by a tight interpretation of "entry fees".

I imagine the NZOF Council comments are more to do with management and logistics of a team. It has been shown previously, ala Belgium 1997 that a big junior team in Europe may not facilitate optimum results.

The promoters of the last remit might like to rewrite their remit in a way more likely to achieve better results: eg "clubs ask the NZOF to make the funding of representative junior teams a priority"



Show Profile  addison Posted: 3 January 2008, 1:47 PM  
Ok excellent to hear Jenni - my apologies for any mixup on that front to PAPO.

Tom, this isn't BikeNZ this is orienteering.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 3 January 2008, 3:37 PM  
Jager, after reading and learning about what you meant with the $60 for the tight interpretation of 'entry fees' I can now debate this in more detail.

For JWOC in Australia, NZOF was lucky that they did choose to itemise the account at (as I believe) the NZOF's request. This may not be the case with many other countries federations.

Jamie is right. If we want to prioritise something like jwoc, then let them know via your area rep or via a worded memo rather than actually as a remit on the constitution. Times change, and who knows something else might become a priority in the future... this just limits our federations flexibility to operate swiftly if required to stay ahead of the game.

Show Profile  Ellmo1769 Posted: 4 January 2008, 7:37 PM  
Surely the entry fee for 5 international races is more than $60?

Show Profile  JD Posted: 7 January 2008, 9:43 AM  
ive got head boy commitments and cant come to waitangi

Show Profile  addison Posted: 7 January 2008, 10:29 AM  
Surely you can come to the events on the weekends Jordan, and Waitangi Day?

Show Profile  JD Posted: 8 January 2008, 11:37 AM  
haha weve got school on waitangi day...due to boarders hhaving to go home if we had it off apparently

Show Profile  Bryan Posted: 9 January 2008, 7:19 AM  
A suggestion. If I was in the same boat and really wanted to compete, I would ask the school for days off.

In my submission to the school I would include something like the following eg:
- Trial for selection for National team
- no other selection trials

I would stress that if selected I would be representing both New Zealand and the school as well.

I would have thought that schools would be delighted to have a student who competes for New Zealand at a sport.

To make it all official like, I would request an email or letter
from someone in the NZOF - say Jeff (chairman of selectors) - written on official NZOF letterhead - where Jeff would mention the reason of the event and ask the school principal that <such and such>
be given time off to compete at the event(s) as she/he has a good chance of being selected but needs to compete in the trial(s).




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