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Regional Training Squads

Show Profile  addison Posted: 5 December 2006, 4:45 PM  
On the note of selections James, the All Blacks are picked by a selection panel of which the Coach is only a small part. Every 'Squad' or 'Team' is picked by a group of people, not just handpicked by one individual.

This message was edited by Simon Addison on 5 December 2006, 5:50 PM

Show Profile  James Posted: 5 December 2006, 7:23 PM  
yes you are correct.
and the d-squad is selected by the NZOF selection panel
as there was/is no Auckland selection panel i selected a auckland regional squad after consultation with a few other orienteers. How else would you propose doing it?

Show Profile  Tane Cambridge Posted: 5 December 2006, 7:43 PM  
"I believe that if you are a member of a NZ squad, you should be competitve among the top juniors in NZ."

I agree with you, but just remember James.... NZ means NZ and this funily enough includes the South Island also known as the main land.

There are some orienteers from down in the south that have potential but are only ever seen by the rest of the orienteering comunity at major events that happen to be held the North Island in terrain more familar to the NI, and NI orienteers.

For example, I was only spotted at a South Island event where I managed to hold it together on home terrain where 3 of the JWOC trialists (all from NI) fell apart.
Others are Duncan O'Regan, and Daniel Barnfield, picked up at the NSSC in Nelson

In my experiences of you (James) as a coach, (which have been very few and far between) what I have noticed is a reluctance to talk to people that you dont really know that well, I myself being one of them. You may appear as an outward and open person but I think maybe you are sometimes a bit shy. Either shy or oblivious to juniors other than the ones you personally coach.

And its all very well saying you are always open to talk to anyone at anytime.... but how is anyone new to the whole scene going to know this? (sounds a bit like John Mitchell...)

I also believe that you shouldnt have to sign anything to show your dedication towards the d-squad. By being selected the selector should know how dedicated the individual is. Which can be determined by talking to them. Otherwise why (apart from a few good results) were they selected in the first place? This is a development squad NOT a national team nor the National junior squad (is it?).

I think you could be a good coach of d-squad, you have all the background knowleadge in sport science and experience etc, just be sure you are totally inclusive



Jenni did do some training in CHCH and weekly training has been continued by her and other elites. So we do still have a sort of training "group" going in CHCH.

Simon (B ), why would you do a Jamie and desert us in CHCH by moving up north?!!!!

Show Profile  addison Posted: 5 December 2006, 8:12 PM  
Inclusive is the word that should be focused on any training squad or development squad.

At the beginning of the year James when we ran training sessions in Auckland you will remember that we kept everyone informed even if they were not going to JWOC or in Dsquad or whatever. I know for a fact that you have run training sessions, but why the hell were other people not informed?

I just hope that inclusiveness is something that is fostered in any new structure you develop.


I think this is unfortunately turning into a debate about something that I didn't want it to become. I just want to debate the actual pro's and con's of a new structure for Dsquad, but for this to happen we need more information James?

Show Profile  SJ Posted: 5 December 2006, 10:41 PM  
Given that the Auckland Junior Squad receives no assistance from any clubs or the NZOF that I am aware of, is not an official or endorsed squad and is coached volunatarily, it has no obligation to anyone. James is fully entitled to pick a squad of committed juniors with potential who he is prepared to give up some of his limited free time to. What is more, he can call it whatever he wants. Within our squad, we have a lot of respect for both James and Dave and we are extremely grateful that they are devoting some of their time to improving our orienteering. Anyone trying to tell them what they are doing isn't right doesn't have a leg to stand on. Cheers James!

P.S. The more Simons in the North the better. After all, everyone knows the North is the way the compass points, and since Simons are the greatest natural force known to man, they must surely be pointing to where the Simon stronghold should be located. Hint hint Bloomberg

Show Profile  Kate Posted: 5 December 2006, 11:13 PM  
just be warned... the more simons in the flat, the less likely im going to move in. ever.

Show Profile  James Posted: 6 December 2006, 5:40 AM  
Tane thanks for your input. i realise that south islanders can often be overlooked, due to lack of competition/events and its an expensive and time consuming task attendig many major north island events. As well as the athletes you mentioned i can think of other south islanders that didnt get noticed as well..........

I'm sorry if i havent talked to you much, but conversations are a two way street. Have i ever ignored you, when you approached me for a chat? I admit that i tend to talk to juniors whom i have coached at previous junior training camps, because i am interested in their progress. And to the best of my knowledge, i am not employed, nor do i have the role of 'the guy that should go around and talk to every NZ junior!'
I choose to go out of my way to approach and talk to juniors to see how their race went, and have a chat, because i am interested in their results and try and offer advice where i can.

I agree that a development squad should be focusing on development. But i think that it should be for athletes that want to improve themselves and put in some hard work to demonstrate the dedication.

This entire thread began because i sent an email to a few of the NZOF delegates asking their opinions. I never stated that this is what must happen under my coaching, nor did i try and enforce my opinions. I was simply asking for their expert advice and to point out pro's and con's (at that present time i could not see many con's). I received some valuable & constructive feedback from these people (which is exactly what i was after) and they raised some really good points that i hadn't thought about.

A couple of you reitterate inclusiveness.............so to what boundaries do i include??? I have already stated that i intend to invite those up and coming orienteers whom are not already d-squad members.............isnt this including?

If and when i run a training session, am i supposed to let everyone in NZ know about it? p.s. im going for a bike ride out to Maretai this morning then doing intervals this afternoon at Glover Park!

I wanted to provide as much one on one coaching as possible to the juniors that attended. I was aiming for quality rather than quantity (i mean how often do juniors receive one on one coaching?)

i didnt realise that i was under the obligation to inform everyone about training that i conduct. However, there have been several trainings held in the auckland area that i myself have not been invited too.............should i kick up a stink about it on maptalk??



Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 6 December 2006, 6:08 AM  
Quoting Dave:

"Hey Greg I just had a thought ... you could organise a squad for the people who don't wanta train ... It'd be alot easier you wouldn't have to do anything.... :-)"

A nice post Dave - suggesting Mr Flynn organises a squad for juniors who don't want to train - perhaps the most appropriate person if we think back a few years? If I had the time to go and look there's a few old threads on here on the subject of juniors training that I'm sure would be of moderate humour value about now.

James - I respectfully suggest you develop a thicker skin - if you are volunteering your time and doing something to contribute positively to our sport sometimes it's best to ignore criticism that is not constructive.

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 6 December 2006, 6:11 AM  
Quoting Greg:

"I'm questioning the proposal (which was rumoured to be yours) I've heard been put forward ..."

Greg, you were the one that taught me "Assumptions are the mother of all F... Ups" - getting on your soap box after "hearing rumours"? Tut tut.

Show Profile  Dave Posted: 6 December 2006, 7:17 AM  
Just on the selection of the squad from the outset I was involved in the selection of the Juniors that we have in the squad. So it definately was not James operating individually. It is an abolsolute credit to James how much time and effort he throws into looking after the Jumiors in the Auckland squad. He has provided a level of commitment that I was unable to and consequently that is why he is operating this squad largely off his own back not because he wants his own private glory when the juniors in the squad succeed (because they are and will), but because others (me) are too lazy to provide much assistance.
By the way i can confirm that James is contantly talking about the performances from other juniors in the auckland area and who is willing to put in some effort to train so that he can add them to the squad.
It should be acknowledged however the finacial contribution that was made by CMOC to these juniors. They provided (i believe) a small contibution of funds to assist with the costs involved with training.
Sure talk about the selection policies of the D-squad etc. but stay away from critising the Auckland Junior Regional Squad in any way as it is by far the best thing that has happened in the development of junior orienteering talent in the auckland area in my memory.

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 6 December 2006, 8:39 AM  
No one has been criticising the work James has done, I'm criticising the use of it as an example for what was rumoured (and I say rumoured Rob as I have it from a couple of good sources and dont want to put them in the shit) to be the new D squad selection basis and where those missing out would go.

But since James has got so defensive from the get go, its so much fun to keep him going.

One thing that has been pointed out that I'm fully behind is the lack of invites to ALL Auckland juniors/elites, to organised O training in the forest, as I've said, not too long ago anything organised at all, people would be invited from the whole Island.

Dave you should invite Jamie to live in your flat as well, then you can hold the record for the 3 fattest ever in elite ranks at the moment... sorry Jamies now a 'recreational orienteer'


Show Profile  pcbrent Posted: 6 December 2006, 8:51 AM  
Jamie is an 'Adventure Racer' not an Orienteer.

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 6 December 2006, 11:07 AM  
i agree with simon j, james has done an awesome job. Although I havnt taken up on as much of his offers as the others recently due to other reasons, he has made a huge difference to the standard of Auckland orienteers and has added at least another 2 strong juniors to the 6 we already had.

Furthurmore think the initiative of keeping it small is good. after all as a sport we dont have huge resources. perhaps putting more effort into a selected few is a better use of resources, isnt d squad about making our best better. I think picking a few with a strong drive to train is a good idea, and will have a better return on the investment made in them as opposed to spreading the resources thinner over a wider area.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 6 December 2006, 11:18 AM  
Doesn't JWOC require 6 guys and 6 girls. Whamo then there is 12 places required in DSquad at a minimum.

Take into account the fact that people will not be able to jump straight from no national coaching structure straight into the JWOC team (in most cases), and that number can practically double. Especially when if we want to have a really strong team year in year out we want to use all the places for top competitors - not just to sent people to develop (this is reliant on having the numbers of course).

Then this year is an example of injuries. Put that into the equation and having a "selected few" can kiss my ass.

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 6 December 2006, 12:07 PM  
The Auckland regional junior squad was regarded as important at the regional forum held way back earlier in the year (I can’t prove it – there aren’t any minutes), in essence it was endorsed then.

Simon J - Dave is correct, CM has provided financial support this year to help with transport & map costs.

Tane, the development squad shirts say “junior squad” & Signing a form is a common practice in many sports codes.

How does one contact all the juniors/elites in the Auckland region? NO ONE has managed that yet!


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