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points scoring

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 22 May 2006, 3:19 AM  
i have just been looking at the results from niss champs.
While looking at the top school results i noticed how blantantly the current system favours schools with large humbers of competitors who finish in the middle of the fields (ie napier boys/girls and havelock high)
i thik that the system needs a rethink to reward winning grades as opposed to sheer numbers.
I think that:
1. only relays and championship grade results should count towards the overall points (this mightbe the case already?)
2. The points system should be changed.
currently 1st gets 25, 2nd gets 24, 3rd gets 23....etc down to 1.
wouldnt it be better to have:
1st = 60
2nd = 54
3rd = 49
4th = 45
5th = 42
6th = 40
7th = 39
etc down to 1
this would reward winning instead of numbers, and yes it is how they do it at mountain biking.

if i want to suggest this does it go to the technical comitee or to the schools coordinator?



Show Profile  jeffg Posted: 22 May 2006, 4:37 AM  
Thomas, doesn't that still favour teams with depth? E.g. 16th place would get 30 points, 1/2 that of the winner, when currently they only get 10 points, 40% of the winner's score. It might be better to keep the same scale from 3rd place down, and raise 1st and 2nd to say 30 and 25 points?

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 22 May 2006, 6:19 AM  
Top School favours numbers, Premier School favours results. It's that simple.

Something like the superseries could work, where the poitns scale down to some place which gets 1 (say 10 or 15th or something) and everyone after that gets 1. I havent done any research on it, nor am i going to.

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 22 May 2006, 6:28 AM  
yeah I always thought that the philosophy behind top schools was to reward depth

Show Profile  AlanHorn Posted: 22 May 2006, 7:30 AM  
for the WOA Frank Smith interclub event we use a system based on yachting (I believe) that gives bonus points for getting with x% of the winners time.
ie better runners get more points

It supposed to allow even small clubs a chance at getting lots of points against big clubs.
Hawkes Bay still always win.

see rules at http://www.mapsport.co.nz/woa/woaref.html


Show Profile  Martin Posted: 22 May 2006, 11:36 AM  
it has to be simple enough for your average joe school kid to calculate

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 22 May 2006, 12:06 PM  
why Martin? how many school kids work out the points for the prize giving?

Show Profile  addison Posted: 23 May 2006, 3:22 AM  
Thomas.

Can I please ask your reasoning for yet more verbal diarrhea?

Isnt it obvious that a school with a larger team has more chance of having more good runners? Isnt taking a big team something that we should be trying to achieve with all schools?

You have to remember this is the NISS Champs, not the NZSS Champs. At the NZSS Champs they have both the Top School competition, as well as a Premier School competition.

The premier means you count one person from each day on the individual. It works well for schools who have the best runners overall in each grade. If this is something you are trying to change the Top School competition to be, why not just implement it at NISS Champs.

Along with those competitions there is the Small Schools Competition. Wow yet another one you might say.


Now Thomas here comes the tricky part. Listen carefully. Rather than going off and shooting your mouth off, howsabout giving Geoff Morrison a call (I can even get you his number if you really want) and talk to him about it. Learn the system before you try and change it. Even if you did put this to the technical committee, I am sure they would require the signoff from the Secondary Schools co-ordinator, as he would be the one who knows the most about it.

There is a tradition with schools events in NZ. Why change something that has been going on for so long completely fine? "So that it can be like mountain biking". Kiss my white hairy ass.

Show Profile  PaulS Posted: 23 May 2006, 10:52 AM  
You have been to three NZSS champs Thomas and you think (something you seem very fond of) that means you knowing what is best for the points system? Let me explain how hard work by key individuals, over time, develops a 'top school'.

The current system rewards depth, as opposed to just 'sheer numbers' (sure, they help). Havelock North won because Jack Vincent - an anchor, if you will - goes there. He (and Steve Armon, the sports co-coordinator) have built up the numbers to support him. It has taken time. While I was at school, Havelock North only ever had a real shot at the top school in my seventh form - 2005 (by the time Jack was fifth form). When little third form Ross Morrison came to my school, Napier BHS, they had a few guys go off to NZSSC with him. They never had a chance of winning the top school trophy. By the time he was 5th form (2000), they were contenders. In 2001 (when I arrived at Napier BHS), we would of won if it wasn't for a relay misclip; likewise 2002. In 2003 at Nelson, Napier NBHS were still strong contenders despite Ross' absence - he and Derek had crafted a continuing orienteering interesting. Unfortunately we were taken down by Putaruru and Simon Addison (who like many other could be seen in one of these 'anchor' roles in a 'top school'). In 2004 we finally won, and the same in 2005. You see Thomas; things take time to build up a 'top school'.

Havelock North is currently the top orienteering school in North Island (and perhaps New Zealand) by virtue of the efforts at Waitarere it's that simple. Before you go slagging off 'sheer' numbers, why don't experiment and use your profile at your school to turn Westlake into a 'top school' contender? Instead of changing the system to suit YOU (and your worrying desire to morph orienteering to mountain biking), use the system to benefit to orienteering. For example, I know a lot of people signed up for orienteering at my school because they heard we were 'New Zealand Champions' or, before that, Ross going to JWOC in Spain.

An important factor, if not the most important, I realize is having a dedicated individual (and I know there are many) in a school to organize students. This is an immense task and anyone who does it well has my respect.


Show Profile  Nah Posted: 23 May 2006, 3:06 PM  
Nah!

Why don't you just piss of back to mountain biking then you little girl? Stop trying to change things to make yourself look half-decent.

So Nah!

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 24 May 2006, 5:08 AM  
i get the impression that paul and simon dont like me, and that nah retard too. who is nah?

i think my idea has been shot down, yet again. i wish i had more time to mindlessly sit infront of my computer writing huge posts shutting down the suggestions of others

Show Profile  thomasr Posted: 24 May 2006, 5:10 AM  
simon, i have verbal diahorrea because i love it when your angry.

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 24 May 2006, 5:24 AM  
go back to the 20e, it had more potential than this

Show Profile  Wiseone Posted: 24 May 2006, 6:05 AM  
It seems a number of you have it...
So you might as well correctly spell it...
diarrhoea

Show Profile  addison Posted: 24 May 2006, 9:33 AM  
If only you knew what I was like thomas when I am angry. Lets put it this way, you wouldnt be able to type your stupid posts on maptalk anymore.

Quote "I wish I had more time to mindlessly sit infront of my computer writing huge posts shutting down the suggestions of others". Dont we all, but to be honest it doesnt take long to shoot down any of your suggestions. Infact dare I say it, it would take me less time to shoot down any of your suggestions, than it takes you to come up with them and post on here.

Now, I wish I had more time to mindlessly sit infont of a desk or computer and write a submission to the technical committee on a stupid idea. Ohh wait, thats what you might do... enjoy wasting your time thomas

Show Profile  PaulS Posted: 24 May 2006, 10:19 AM  
Hahaha, fully agree with the above Simon.

Thomas you won't get very far if you take opposition to your ideas as personal attacks.


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