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World ranking Events

Show Profile  ericm Posted: 4 November 2003, 12:25 PM  
Once again the list of WRE's are out and once again 2 of the 3 WRE's in Aust and NZ fall over our respective Easter carnivals. This overlap is a joke considering each country can only have 3 WRE's per year.

It's a pity that we can get the Aust and NZ associations to coordinate a bit better so perhaps we can select our World Ranking races on different weekends. I can give 10 reasons why people say it will be too hard to do (eg have to support our national easter events, need IOF controllers etc), but with World Rankings becoming more important as a qualifying tool into major events in future, maybe we need to change our planning to give runners more races to qualify for a ranking.

A better choice would have been to make the next ANZ elite test in june a WRE. You could still have one in Easter. Similarly the test match in South Aust this year should have also been a WRE replacing one of our 2 over this years Aus easter carnival.

Any thoughts on this? It bugs me but others may not really care...


Show Profile  Greg Posted: 4 November 2003, 1:14 PM  
Its our Nationals, its just a meaningless 3 days for you guys. Not hard picking who should sort out their respected WREs if they don't want them to clash with NZs.

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 5 November 2003, 12:34 AM  
LOL Greg. Thought I'd let someone else say it - thanks!

Re June next year - its a bit hard to make a test a WRE when it hasnt been confirmed as a test and applications for WRE closed months ago.

Eric - 2005: I can tell you now that NZOF will probably have 4 WRE's based around the Oceania Champs in January and Easter Nationals in Hamilton. If you want to go to Orienteering Australia and tell them not to clash their WRE's with ours off you go :-)

Show Profile  ericm Posted: 5 November 2003, 12:56 AM  
As I said, plenty of reasons why people say it's too hard.

But why do the WREs have to be the Nationals? or our Three Days? You have superseries events and we have National League events that don't clash and still see the same group of runners attending.

Fair enough about 05 Oceania champs. But the test planning in 2004 is something that the Associations could have sorted out easily enough and early enough if they had too for WRE purposes.

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 5 November 2003, 3:13 AM  
Eric, to answer your questions seriously:

Having WRE's outside of Nationals in NZ presents the following problems:

1. IOF Rule 14.2: "The competition terrain shall not have been used for orienteering for as long as possible prior to the competition, so that no competitor has an unfair advantage"

In NZ, many provincial championships are run on used areas and fairness would become an issue. In NZ, some organsising clubs are not blessed with an endless supply of good quality orienteering areas that haven't been used for years. And this should answer your question regarding A/NZ tests being WRE events. There's no way the Aussie trials in May could/should have been a WRE event given the number of times that map had been used beforehand. Ditto the Auckland Champs in October. Probably ditto next Queens Birthday in NZ.

If you want WRE's where there are a mixture of Oz and NZ elites you are going to need a new map on an area that has not been used for a considerable length of time. That is more difficult to achieve in NZ than in Oz.

2. There are only three IOF controllers in NZ (which is a requirement for a WRE). I can only speak for one, who is not exactly jumping for joy at the propsect of (properly) controlling WRE's every 2-3 years.

3. Some of our provincial champs don't even bother to seek 'A' grade status in NZ - and I can envisage some organisers telling the NZOF where to go if it was suggested such an event become an WRE.

Basically, NZ's hands are tied a little bit in what events can be WRE's. Nationals become the obvious candidate because it usually has the strongest fields and a new map - and there is no point in organsing a WRE if only 5 W21E's turn up (as at the CD champs just held).

If you are concerned about the clash of WRE's between the 2 countries, raise it with Orienteering Australia - I believe there is more flexibility on your side of the ditch as to what events you could have as WRE's (not to mention a lot more IOF controllers).

I've indicated to you what events NZ in 2005 are likely to be WRE's - again obvious choices because the reality is clubs organising provincial championships won't probably start thinking about them until 12 months (or less) beforehand - and the timing of our provincial championships and the deadline for WRE applications means that if a provincial championships was to be considered for a WRE, the application to IOF would have to go in more than 12 months in advance of the event.

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 5 November 2003, 1:52 PM  
So to summarise Rob's excuses:

1. New Zealand doesn't have enough good maps.

2. There are only three controllers in NZ and one of them smokes too many cigarettes to bother controlling a WRE.

3. The NZOF can't organise 'A' grade status events and organisers can tell the NZOF where to go.

Number one is a load of rubbish. Number two speaks for itself and three reflects the pathetic state of orienteering in New Zealand and the inability of the NZOF to run a descent number of events at a reasonable level for its elites.

Any test match between the two countries in NZ is likely to have one of the strongest fields for the year (and if it doesn't then I would question the purpose of the events) and I reckon Eric's idea is not bad considering he is an Australian.

Show Profile  ericm Posted: 5 November 2003, 4:01 PM  
Still only up to about 4 half arsed reasons.

Rob, re 1, I am pretty sure if you looked closely there would be WRE's in other countries where the definition of " long as possible" has been about 1 year. And so what anyway. You will never find completely neutral conditions for a whole host of reasons. The Aust middle distance champs was a WRE this year. We had 1 minute start gaps with runners starting in seeded order and plenty of packs that many (including me) got an advantage from. It wasn't ideal but we accepted it. And if you really worry about using a map not run on for a while, surely you could find 1 area in Woodhill you could lock away for a year. I thought half the forest was mapped after all.

With 2, aren't you just shuffling the IOF controllers around from one WRE to another? If you took WRE status away from a day of your Nationals, wouldn't the requirement to have an IOF controller for that event also go? And that is pretty piss poor having 3 accredited IOF controllers in the country. Train some more or find some dodgy way of relaxing the qualifying standard. I know all your WOC runners and I would trust any of them with a bit of guidance to control a major event. Not to mention many of your experienced vets. The talent to do this is around if you get organised.

With 3, do these organisers still use crayons at the controls and black and white maps too?

Don't worry I did mention it to someone on the OA executive a few months ago and heard the same range of dismal excuses. Incidentally the person in Australia who I talked to also told me about 6 years ago that the only way we would get electronic punching in Australia is if we got the World Champs again. I guess on form this means the WRE issue should be sorted in a few months.

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 6 November 2003, 12:40 AM  

1. Read my post again - I said "good quality orienteering areas that haven't been used for years". I didn't say we don't have enough good maps.

2. Given that Puff the Magic Dragon is the only one so far to have bothered controlling an event so it can have WRE status, and the other 2 possibly couldn't give a rats arse about WRE events (I may be doing them a disservice), and I'll probably be doing it again for the Oceania Champs 2005 - you can stick your snide comment where the sun don't shine.

3. NZOF doesn't organise events - clubs do. The fact that in some instances clubs can't be bothered even ensuring a provincial championship is A grade status is a problem. What's your solution?


1. I'll accept "as long as possible" could mean 1 year - probably should mean 2-3 years at the minimum. And 1 year could possibly be appropriate for a WRE where the only competitors are from one country.

My point is if you're looking at using ANZ tests as WRE's then this requirement becomes more important - because if a significant number of competitors are coming from another country and if a significant number of competitors from the home country have already and recently had competition runs on the map, then there is an "unfair advantage", and any controller worth his salt would not allow it to happen. That was the case for both the May and October tests.

Your example of the start interval is in contravention of the IOF Rule on start intervals - so the controller should be asked why.

2. Thanks for your opinion on the number of IOF controllers in this country. There wasn't a need to have many in NZ until WRE events were initiated (a recent phenomenon). A requirement to become an IOF Controller is to attend an IOF clinic, which is almost always held in Europe, so unless an individual is suitably motivated to go in conjunction with an overseas trip, our number is not likely to increase. It's not a question of "getting organised".

3. I don't know - I'll ask them.




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