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Political correctness gone mad?

Show Profile  ecurb Posted: 11 June 2003, 3:38 PM  
Having just received my Nationals results book yesterday (and only 7 weeks after the event!) I see lots of competitors are credited with a "mp"

What does this mean? Mis punched? Marginally poor? Magnetically poor? Moronical pisshead?

What is wrong with the old DNF or DSQ? They weren't good enough or clever enough to finish so why not call it as it is!!!

Just to stir don't NZOF rules say ......
1 Every competitor shall be given an official results list within 4 weeks ( yes I know I can look it up on the web but I'm old fashioned enough to want a paper copy
2 Badge credits will be shown

Ah well they didn't follow NZOF rules for info on the entry form either.........

Just stirring!!!

Show Profile  3 monkeys on fire Posted: 11 June 2003, 8:08 PM  
i reckon mp is fine, for DSQ's

thats all

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 12 June 2003, 11:35 AM  
yep, I'm with you Ecurb.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people who "mp'ed" actually DNF'ed not DsQed (a far worse sin). To make things worse one person who actually "DsQed" is down as a DNF....

does this has any effect on the ranking system? quite an important point considereing the effort that has gone into getting this up and running......

You know where to put your badge credits.....hint, not the same place as everyone puts their badge awards, in the rubbish.

Show Profile  Bryan Posted: 12 June 2003, 12:12 PM  
NZOF Requirements for Results currently don't have 'mp' listed as a valid result - valid entries are the normal DNF, DSQ, DNS. The SI software probably automatically prints 'mp'.
'mp' seems fine to me and they have gone into the Statistics database the same way.

NZOF badge rules have changed since the beginning of the year. Organisers no longer
have to publish or calculate badge credits. These are currently listed on my statistics website. I was personally requested by the organisers of the event to check their credit calculation but I told them of the new rules and that they didn't have to print the credits anymore in the results.

NZOF Statistician

Show Profile  Bryan Posted: 12 June 2003, 12:29 PM  

Re: Your comment about badge credits and awards being rubbish

Sigh, why do so many people use forums like this and email to sound of and say off the cuff remarks without thinking?

Currently 625 competitors have badge awards which is a significant proportion of all Orienteers in New Zeland.

I am currently trying to revamp the scheme and make badges awarded automatically
and your comments are not appreciated. I am striving to make the awards a basis
for trying to achieve excellence and a wisecrack from you (who is the new NZOF coaching director) is destroying all I'm trying to achieve.

A possible enhancement of the scheme which I tried to introduce to the NZOF was to have grants based on the credits. (eg juniors are eligible for travel subsidy if they have achieved gold status or credits in the last year or so and they compete at Junior World champs or
ANZ challenge). I was informed that the funding didn't exist but this could be reviewed at a later date if I came up with a good case. I have yet to do this.


Show Profile  Malcolm Posted: 12 June 2003, 2:29 PM  
I don't really see the difference between being disqualified or not finishing Jamie. Why is a DNF a far worse sin? Either way, you haven't completed the course as it was intended. If you run past the last control without punching it, then you are DNF'ed but if you do the same thing for any other control, it is a DSQ. Isn't it the same thing!!

If mp stands for missed punch (as I assumed it did) then it exactly correct. There were correct punches missing!

And 7 weeks is a bit rediculous! (as is starting a paragraph with the word "and".)

By the way, how did the four people manage to get 'DNF' recorded instead of 'mp'? (the filthy sinners)

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 12 June 2003, 5:25 PM  
I would just like to welcome Jamie to the club where because he holds an NZOF position he has to think twice before contributing his personal thoughts to this forum. I've got a few unused pseudonyms (note correct spelling) if you need one.

Show Profile  Neil K Posted: 12 June 2003, 5:52 PM  
I can sell you Idiot if you want Jamie. I always get attention when I go by his name.

Show Profile  ecurb Posted: 13 June 2003, 9:17 AM  
Hey Fraser

How come people can have the same spewdanim?

Does this mean there is another ecurb sneaking about making posts?

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 13 June 2003, 9:53 AM  
Call me what you will,

Perhaps as Coaching Director I shouldn't have expressed that opinion, but hey thats what I feel.

If people feel so strongly about the "badge system" then why has it been in such a decomposing state for at least the last ten years?

Bryan, (being constructive) how can we, or me in particular, aid the comeback of the badge system? Can the badge system run on events less than the current badge status, eg a clubs top two OY's per year as well as their championship?

For me the real potential of the badge system has always been as a progress recognition award, not an expression of how well one did at a championship. I suggest that if your average club ran 3-4 "badge" events per year then there would be a greater incentive for the club to use it internally to recognise members improvement.


Jamie sux

Edited by - mark on 13/06/2003 11:01:48

Show Profile  Neil K Posted: 13 June 2003, 10:34 AM  
I'll plug your whole in a minute Mark.

Show Profile  Bryan Posted: 13 June 2003, 3:46 PM  

The Badge system has not really been dead for 10 years. See:

There were almost 60 people applying for badges in 1997, and 15 in 1999. The system has probably been dormant for the last 4 years as I am more focused on creating a statistics website and making available results for all major events in New Zealand.

I am slowly working on making the system better. Badge credits can be viewed on the website and people can see exactly what they are eligible for. At the end of this year,
I will generate a list of people who will be eligible for badges for the year, and I'm sure this
will stimulate some interest. On another front, I will try to use the badge credits system to
provide more incentive to youngsters and old people but this will take some time.

All B grade events can have badge status by just applying to the NZOF Technical convenor. I will make sure that more events have badge status by chasing up the organisers. OYs and South Island Challenges can be given badge status if the organisers just email a request to NZOF.

There is no extra adminstration for organisers anymore as I calculate all credits and they don't have to publish the credits in the results.

If I were a coach, I would try to urge new Orienteers and youngsters to use the badge system as a way to guage their progress as they get better. When I first started, I can remember my goals were to get my first gold credit, then my first gold badge and then become a member of the elite squad.


Show Profile  Andrew M Posted: 14 June 2003, 12:54 PM  
From someone who made it the entire way around an ardous classic course at this years nationals and had a slight discretion at the last control, I would hope that some distinction can be made between a DSQ and a DNF.

Perhaps you can have a manual override that establishes if competitors has pulled out when they admit it to the finish official.

Depends on which set of basket cases you want to be classified under.

The Jamie "lost my sport ident" Stewart or the Greg "lost my balls" Flynn.


left my brain at the 31st control

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 29 June 2003, 10:42 PM  
Bryan wrote...

"All B grade events can have badge status by just applying to the NZOF Technical convenor."

I sincerely hope the word "just" was unintended. Doesn't there have to be some quality control over the event and over the size of the expected entries for the credits to mean anything?

An A-level event is presumed to come up to this standard, but there are many reasons why an event is a B. I would think the Technical Committee should consider these before giving badge status to a B-level event. And as for using OYs, well an M55 and maybe an M60 could have got an M21 gold credit at the last Dunedin OY under this proposal.

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 30 June 2003, 12:04 AM  
I must confess to complete technical ignorance over how the badge scheme the calculations etc...I will educate myself soon...

If as Michael suggests the current scheme can only work at 'A' level events (of which there are normally 4 a year) then maybe it could be adjusted slightly to encompass more events.

I feel that if every orienteer competed in four badge events throughout the year they will be much more likely to use the scheme as a measure of their progression.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 30 June 2003, 1:54 PM  
Jamie, I didn't say that the badge scheme can ONLY work at A-level events. Might I suggest that you bone yourself up on how the scheme works, how many A-level events there usually are in the year, and how many B-level events have been given badge status.




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