Forum   |   Links    


Forum Home   Start New Topic   Edit Profile   Register  

How long is too long?

Show Profile  PaulS Posted: 14 April 2003, 10:57 AM  
2003 Nationals Classic
course 9 (M16) 5.1km (+more?)

Show Profile  Alistair Posted: 14 April 2003, 11:41 PM  
Just had at look at Bryan's super-duper web-site of ranking & stats:
...and found the following info about M15 at the Nationals:

Yr, km, winners time, place
85 5.1 36.35 Waitarere, flat dunes
87 5.2 42.04 Taupo gullies
89 5.8 53.51 Waiuku - hilly dunes
90 3.6 36.22 Mamaku - low-vis central districts
91 5.0 46.56 Woodhill
92 2.8 49.34 Some awful hills in the SI
93 5.2 46.18 Woodhill
97 5.6 50.39 ?
98 3.4 43.37 ?
99 4.2 43.58 Weiti/Beez-Neez - hilly
00 5.1 68.49 Hilly area near Masterton I think
01 3.7 39.42 Rotorua
02 4.8 36.42 SI Motorway country

The NZOF rules specifies a medium time of 60mins. If someone can be bothered to work that one out feel free. But looking at these statistics I'd say that 5.1km is probably about right given it's Woodhill....

Show Profile  Neil K Posted: 15 April 2003, 9:56 AM  
As long as a girls skirt.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 22 April 2003, 7:57 AM  
Lets have a M10, and make each grade harder.

M10 - White
M12 - Yellow
M14 - Orange
M16 - Red

Show Profile  PaulS Posted: 22 April 2003, 8:03 AM  
alot of juniors start orienteering at high school..... agree?
so, you would be asking the kids for a lot of improvement over a short period of time, you would be looking at going from white to red in two years, to get in the A grades. We all know experience is the best way to learn, but only allowing them a limited amount of events to progress, would see kids pulling out early because they would find it just to hard.
just my thoughts.

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 23 April 2003, 1:35 AM  
In Australia M16 is red. If Australian juniors can handle it then I am sure NZ juniors can too.

Show Profile  DaveGlover Posted: 23 April 2003, 5:41 AM  
Everybody quotes the "M16 is red in Australia" thing, and yes, their top M16s are very good, but does anybody know what effect it has on the development of Juniors, whether they lose more or less orienteers than we do between year 9 and year 11? Do they have a big B grade or standard grade as well as the top grades. Our B grades are a bit of a flop as far as competition and encouragement are concerned, and our standard grades at the secondary schools, while better populated, are not much better. Going to red at M16 will certainly sort out the best very early, with some short term benefits, but at what cost in lost potential?

Show Profile  stu barr Posted: 25 April 2003, 2:22 PM  
but does anybody know what effect it has on the development of Juniors, whether they lose more or less orienteers than we do between year 9 and year 11?

How could they possibly lose more juniors than we do?
Approximate retention of year 9 to 11 competitors in the last 5 years: 6

Show Profile  addison Posted: 27 April 2003, 10:37 AM  
Perhaps by making a M10, and making each grade harder in the junior grades, the 'B' grades could be more promoted. I dont even know if anyone ran M18b in the weekend.

Show Profile  Chris Forne Posted: 29 April 2003, 3:39 AM  
Well I would have preferred it if the courses were longer and harder when I was competing at junior grades. It's mot much fun travelling all the way to an event just to run for 20min especially M12 and M14.

M16 should have a winning time of about 45-50min I reckon, so I guess this is equivalent
to 60min medium time - seems about right to me.

10-14 year olds can easily cope with running aroud for an hour, so the winning time
for M12/W12 and M14/W14 should be about 30min and 40min respectively, no less.
At least that's what I would have liked when I was younger.


Show Profile  fraser Posted: 29 April 2003, 12:00 PM  
Going to red at M16 will certainly sort out the best very early, with some short term benefits, but at what cost in lost potential?

I think we lose far more potential with the current system. Many juniors run up a grade just for a descent challenge and that should not have to be the case. If our B grades are such a flop then why not make our A grades harder and let the people who aren't up to the mark change down a grade rather than make the good ones change up.

In Australia you have to actually be selected to run in the Schools Championships. Australia has consistently sent full teams of 6 boys and 6 girls to go to JWOC each year. For New Zealand to have a full team of 6 boys and 6 girls would be nothing short of amazing.

I would say that Australia is doing something right and NZ needs to sort itself out.

Show Profile  Marquita G Posted: 29 April 2003, 12:51 PM  
I agree. If Australian M/W16s can cope with red courses why can't NZ ones? The current system only encourages mediocrity. As for losing youngsters to the sport we may be delaying that loss by molly-coddling the juniors for so long but as soon as they turn 18 and have to run much the same course as W21E I'm sure the loss occurs then so the net result is the same. The issue of juniors giving up is a separate one and is probably more related to availaility and quality of coaching and the teaching of good habits and skills from an early age. Reintroduce M/W10 grades to run white course and shift the others up a skill level. Perhaps calling the B-grades "novice" rather than "B-grade" would lessen the slightly negative connotation of the title "B-grade".

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 30 April 2003, 5:41 AM  
This debate is nearly as old as the timing of the season,

Check letter by Jamie Stewart NZO 1996, and article by Jim Barr around the same time

Who has authority to change this??? (I don't think its the Coaching Director)

Lets get it done.




Ruffneck Productions © Ruffneck Productions