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What software does your club use for mapping?

Show Profile  Rolf Posted: 19 March 2017, 8:36 AM  
I am interested to know what clubs are using for mapping software and how you manage this within the club.

Do you purchase a few (how many?) OCAD licenses and only give this to the mapping enthusiasts?

What do you do when someone else wants to have a go at mapping? Do you tell them to bugger off? Or do you skillfully manage licenses all over town?

If you are still using OCAD, they why havn't you moved to Open Orienteering Mapper? Its free and there are no license issues?

Show Profile  pete s Posted: 24 March 2017, 1:19 AM  
am also keen to know how other clubs are managing this. Our club is still using OCAD 9, but with OCAD no longer supporting this (cant save into version 9 from 12), then we have a major decision to make about map software. At over $800 a pop for each single licence user that is a big investment for clubs with 5 plus regular OCAD users. V keen to know what other clubs are doing...cheers

Show Profile  comatose Posted: 24 March 2017, 10:11 AM  
Hey Pete, you can save version 9 from 12, but not any earlier. So this is likely to disappear with the next release too I suspect. For less complex mapping there is the Starter option ~$250, and the course-setting only option ~$70 if you buy bulk copies. But still pretty expensive to buy for part-time use.

AOC relies on 9 for club course setting projects, but most people who want to actually make or modify maps have private copies of 11 or 12. I found Starter too limiting for even modifications of large forest maps.

I agree the licensing is making OCAD less attractive for club purposes, and I'm keen to explore other options like OOM too, especially to get Juniors involved in the process too.

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 24 March 2017, 12:18 PM  
My suggestion would be for the club to own one ocad for the mapping and map updating, and then for course setting use the free to download and user friendly purple pen for course setting. Controllers and planners using ppen can easily share their course ideas via email.
Once you have a 'map file'(ocad or OOM) you import for the ppen course setting. The map file can be updated and changed as you work and you just open the newer updated map file. Very easy. All control description creating and placing is simple as is the creation of final pdf's for printing etc etc.
The course setting experience using Purple pen is a very visual experience compared to ocad CS.
Give it a try!

Show Profile  comatose Posted: 24 March 2017, 3:33 PM  
Yes, PP is great for course setting. But it's not a solution for encouraging mapping within the club. For clubs to build technical capability and encourage members to give mapping a go, what is the best solution?
I've found OCAD 12 great, but it's expensive and with "single user" licenses, it is difficult for clubs to distribute copies around multiple users. The Starter version is pretty limiting.
However, maps are integral to our sport, and good mapping software is as important as other technical gear. I found mapping in 12 is a much better experience than in 9, and it would be great for this software to be more widely available to club members who would like to have a go at mapping, without them having to outlay $$$ personally.
This affects every club in the country, so maybe it's a topic to discuss at the national level. Would there be merit in looking at coordinating a large multi-club order to try to negotiate a bulk discount?

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 25 March 2017, 4:20 AM  
Last year the Mapping Committee urged that mapping discussion transfer to the Mapping Wiki

I've copied these contributions there. They are in "Mapping Policies" not under "OCAD". I've also started up a new thread on a related topic.

This message was edited by Michael on 25 March 2017, 12:37 PM

Show Profile  Svend Posted: 25 March 2017, 6:49 AM  
A few years ago SOC bought two OCAD 11 licenses and we would be happy to buy any number of new OCAD 12 licenses if only we could get someone to use them. An OCAD 12 license is less than $ NZ 1000.00, a small amount compared with the total cost of a new map. I have started to teach 2 club members how to map but it is a slow process as the people concerned have a full-time job. Our members who retire always move to another part of the country rather than making themselves useful to the club.
Our course planners use PP and I can endorse everything Paul Ireland says on the subject.

Show Profile  Rolf Posted: 28 May 2017, 2:45 PM  
Reckon Waikato is going to move to Open Orienteer as much as possible

No-one can give me a good reason not to.

Hopefully NZ mappers will adapt.

Hey Pete.s.... lets start a central nth island mapping revolution.

Show Profile  pete s Posted: 29 May 2017, 2:41 AM  
Hi Rolf - OBOP ended up, after some amount of investigation and research, going with an OCAD 12 licence which gives us the ability to do more major map updates and changes etc (and is way better than OCAD9). We still save back to OCAD 9 which is the version our club members can access maps with. It was a no brainer and money well spent, and gives us the ability to control our map versions back to a version we have common access to. Waiting for a later version of OCAD to come out could be a mistake given its likely this wont support saving back to 9.

I talked to a number of experienced mappers on this (Selwyn, Brian, Paul etc) and the consensus seems to be that open source mapping software still lags OCAD and whilst it may be adequate, it isn't the best option.

We use purple pen for setting which we love and recommend.

Whilst OCAD 12 licences aren't cheap, having a single licence offers a lot of value, and when you think that maps are a clubs greatest asset then its money well spent in my mind.

The other side of this is to value the time of our volunteers - the amount of time I have wasted struggling with difficult software over the years is significant - in the short time I have used OCAD 12 I have found it much more user friendly, and if this saves me hours of work then its money well spent in my mind.

Show Profile  Bryan Posted: 30 May 2017, 3:11 AM  
Our club (Wellington) uses Ocad 9.
I have Ocad 8, Ocad 10, Ocad 12 installed myself which allows me to save files in all versions (eg I've had to save in Ocad 8 files for some clubs recently).

Some WOC members experimented in OOM (and I also have a copy). I've had to migrate the OOM file to Ocad to integrate with our club's mapping Wellington wide Master map - a pain to convert symbol sets.

Our club uses Condes but I've also installed Purple Pen and used it for other clubs.
As a mapper I need to have all versions of all software to cater for different club's needs.

I prefer Ocad 12, Condes as I know the software intimately.

I receive regular software updates for Ocad 12 and Condes - there were two useful automatic updates recently:
- ability to automatically load shape files into Ocad
- default ISOM 2017 symbol set

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 30 May 2017, 7:49 AM  
I would also like to add that it doesn't sound like a fair and reasonable statement to hope that mappers will adjust.

Show Profile  Rolf Posted: 10 June 2017, 2:21 AM  
Some thoughts:
1) We just had a young tech savvy club member make 2 maps for the 1st time. One using OCAD9 and the user using Open Orienteering. He did not find one significantly easier or harder to learn than the other.
2) Most clubs are far too entrenched with OCAD to change.
3) I suspect Most clubs have a very small number of people who do the mapping. Makes sense to buy a small number of OCAD licenses.
4) I assume the practise of installing OCAD9 on multiple PCs is illegal.
5) Some of our club committee want to learn how to do mapping. A note was put out to the membership to see if anyone else would like to attend a training day. So far 12 (and rising) have expressed interest. How cool is that. With Open Orienteering we remove the barrier of software licenses and they can all have a go. Hopefully a few of them go on to make some club maps.
6) We use Condes for course setting currently. Seems that Condes does not handle Open Orienteering Maps. So we will need to use Purple Pen.
7) Paul I. I don't know how to respond to your last comment!

Looks like Waikato are going to give Open Orienteering a crack with some help from Fraser M. Initially just for Urban Park maps and Rogaine (20000) maps.

I will let you know how it goes!

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 10 June 2017, 6:31 AM  
Hi Rolf
Comment was intended to highlight a problem you may encounter if you wished to employ outside mappers whom the majority use ocad. Obviously there are a couple who use OOM. However it is clear to see that you are keen to develop your own club mapping to keep it in-house which is commendable... in that case you could happily choose whichever software you prefer.

Show Profile  The Map Guy Posted: 10 June 2017, 7:15 AM  
OCAD 9 is a pretty primitive piece of software compared with later versions of OCAD so it isn't a fair comparison to rate OCAD against OOM as it is like comparing apples with oranges.

There was a tremendous advancement from OCAD 9 to OCAD 10. I have used OCAD 10 for a number of years now and still prefer it over OCAD 12 mainly because it loads faster on my computer, and it does almost everything I want/need it to do.

I am still coming to grips with the new features of OCAD 12Pro. Maybe in time I will change my mind.

I agree with Paul's comments (directly above)

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 10 June 2017, 9:11 AM  
What's the problem with Rolf's club getting a map made by someone using OCAD and then converting it to OOM?

It would be a one way conversion and once converted you would likely not have all the base layers the mapper used. Do clubs normally get this, do they want it? What other problems would there be?

Show Profile  Jenni Posted: 10 June 2017, 1:54 PM  
Carsten uses OOM and we use condes. He just saves it in ocad 8 format from OOM and then it opens fine in condes.

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