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Printing... Do's, don'ts, experiences and tips.

Show Profile  rhigham Posted: 27 April 2014, 11:03 AM  
Time for me to comment
Background Ocad layers do not cause printing issues - I have used up to 3 with no problem - 1) map base, 2)legend border, logos (all vectorised) then 3) course file on top. The issues arise (and always have) when a bitmap image is used somewhere in the mix. When using OCAD 10 an alert about raster image appears when exporting to PDF where a background bitmap image is used. It seems to mean all layers below the course file layer are rasterised, when this happens I usually choose at least 600 dpi - simple. However this is only a compromise as the quality is still not as good as layers that are all vector, or see below.
Now when there is only one background layer (or bitmap image layer) with course and map combined on top ( archaic, inflexible and time consuming) there are no printing problems.
The maps that Bryan produced had at least 2 jpg images in the background of the Nationals border layer - the Nationals logo, and the O' NZ logo -this was the issue. Bryan picked up the DPI issue in Condes but not OCAD.
Looking at the PDFs under high magnification gives a slight indication something is not right, however the only way to truly analyse quality is do test prints, from the printer of the final product.

The Elephant in the room.
The issues of preparing maps for a series of important events, from different planners, different scales, different course setting software, different courses, different printing processes, different image types, different georeferencing, and a distant printer is fraught and requires a specialist with plenty of time and no other commitments. Dare I say it - maybe we need a professional dedicated to stitching everything together in a short space of time, and testing stuff as they go.

Bryan works full time, was the controller for both the sprint, the night, and the WRE adviser for the long. He had issues with the WOC committee wanting to change the design for his map layout. I have the greatest respect for Bryan, and I have seen him work himself to the bone to get stuff done for major events, but we really need to think seriously about limiting amount of voluntary effort one person gives - or shit will happen.

Show Profile  AlisterM Posted: 27 April 2014, 12:48 PM  
From ISOM 2000
3.4 Enlargement of maps
Where a map is enlarged to a scale of 1:10 000 or greater, all lines and symbols must be enlarged by 150%. Area
screens made with fine dot percentage tints should not be enlarged wherever possible, i.e. screens at 60 l/cm.

Thus for a map scale of 1:7500 the symbol enlargement should be 150%, not 200%. eg. a small depression symbol has a width of 0.8mm on a 1:15000 scale map, and 1.2mm on both 1:10000 and 1:7500 scales.

Show Profile  MikeB Posted: 27 April 2014, 2:52 PM  
So Alistair what size should the small depression be if the map is 1:5000 as we had on the middle map. Same as 1:10000 and !:7500, 1.2mm or would they be slightly bigger say 1.6. The depressions on my map at 1:5000 are 2mm.

Show Profile  AlisterM Posted: 27 April 2014, 3:57 PM  
I'm not sure that the mapping specs anticipate that a 1:15000 scale map would be printed at 1:5000, but presumably they should still be 1.2 mm. The sprint specs width for a small depression is 0.95mm for either 1:5000 or 1:4000.

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 29 April 2014, 8:19 AM  
Re logo formats - what you're saying Russell is that we should either be drawing them from scratch with ocad, (as per theOman)or have to somehow vectorise them all. Forgive my ignorance, I read you can do this using a trace tool in Illustrator, is there many other common or free programs for this?

Show Profile  Paul I Posted: 29 April 2014, 8:37 AM  
Scale enlargements -
Thanks Alistair that appears to confirm that the sizing of all lines and symbols for a 1:7500 map does stay at 150% (1:10000 size). Looking at a map right now printed to these specifications seems strange. It just looks like a 1:10000 map. Is it just it's not something we have been doing so is unfamiliar, or could it also give the wrong impression about the scale. One thing for sure is that it gives the map more white space and therefor easier to read.
An earlier post by Michael suggests that somewhere in between could be a good solution.. I tend to agree with that, but really it looks like we are mostly doing things wrong atm. As Mike points out, what happens with 1:5000, 150% is very different looking map to what we have been used to. Roxburgh Tailings which used sprint specs as you would for a forest sprint event did look great at 1:5000.

Show Profile  Jymbo Posted: 29 April 2014, 10:58 AM  
When ever I'm involved in a major event, I use only 2 bits of Software. OCAD to do all the map stuff, including any logos that are required, and CONDES for the courses. I now have a simple process to follow, and it doesn't let me down

Show Profile  MikeB Posted: 29 April 2014, 2:24 PM  
Paul I would liked to have had the 1;5000 middle map printed with those specs. It would have been much easier to read as all the symbols would have been smaller therefore much more space on the map. It almost felt like information overload and to busy with all the thickness of contour especially the Index Contours and bigger point symbols like small depressions and dot knolls. I also mistook the walk runnability as slow run and got into strife on the first leg.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 29 April 2014, 2:48 PM  
First thanks to Alister for pointing out the oversight in my recollection of the ISOM. The words "or greater". I will now proceed to my annual reading of the spec, and confidently expect that I will discover some previously un-noticed stuff. So there IS advice, but we are tending to want to question it.

Show Profile  rhigham Posted: 30 April 2014, 5:20 AM  
logo vectorisation - Paul, its been along time since I converted a logo, and can't remember how I did it. I haven't produced map files for a major event for a while. Usually I avoid logos (hate the clutter), or simply export at an appropriate DPI.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 30 April 2014, 9:07 AM  
I think that any auto tracing would only be a start. Do it if its going to be used over and over, like a club logo. As well as the geometry there are often special effects in a logo such as patterns and colour transitions. (Aside: heard on the radio today of font designer Joseph Churchward who died a year ago, he never embraced digital technology but others digitised his fonts, taking hours for each letter.)

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 2 May 2014, 2:26 AM  
For small jobs I publish the map as a pdf then open it in Scribus, add any logos or raster images and republish. Although it is also much easier to handle images in OpenOrienteering.

Question about overprinting: My understanding is that the NZ rules do in fact call for overprinting to be used, but this rule seems to be blatantly ignored because OCAD. So is this correct or am I missing something, like some important Technical Committee ruling?

15.1 Maps, course markings and additional overprinting shall be drawn and printed according to the IOF International Specification for Orienteering Maps. Deviations shall be approved by the NZOF Technical Committee.

Additionally, the pdf that Bryan linked to on the previous page of this discussion implies that the overprinting effect can be achieved with OCAD. It is unclear what version this applies to. Can anyone comment on that. Thanks.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 2 May 2014, 10:40 AM  
I think we have been held back not by OCAD but our understanding, or lack of. OCAD has had a switch for "overprint effect" in its colour table since at least version 8. Trouble is, you can't see the effect on your screen or home printer. I think it puts some sort of coding into the EPS or PDF when you export. Then the printshop has to do something in their print management software to recognise it. Go back to that reference by Ken Dowling

Since I couldn't see the effect I didn't use it, I've got heaps of files without the appropriate colours ticked for overprint, because they came from long ago, but a default new file will have the right colours set up for overprint. So, without believing in the overprint effect I have resorted to other mechanisms at least for purple: having a second purple below other colours (not very effective IMHO) or breaking circles and lines. However the overprint effect potentially helps with other colours as well, eg contours on green.

But maybe you all know this, and I'm just catching up. Ken, you read this forum, be good to have your thoughts.

Show Profile  Jymbo Posted: 2 May 2014, 1:51 PM  
Anyone can see 'overprint effect' once they have set up their PDF Abode reader.

Open up a PDF, then select 'Edit' (top next to 'file') > Preferences > Page display, then look for 'Use Overprint Preview" > select 'always' > 'OK'

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 2 May 2014, 5:30 PM  
Ahaaaaaaah! Thanks heaps Jim!

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