Nationals Sprint Protest

Iva Posted: 1 May 2012, 2:40 AM   All Hail Addison - I can not wait for my NZOF propaganda on why he is the best sporting leader, it should go straight on the NZOF homepage   mcroxford Posted: 1 May 2012, 1:01 PM   Could we consider an age restriction on this website? Personally I'm wondering why two of our elite juniors are behaving like my 6 and 4 year old on a (orienteering) public site. In other sports they would be censured and potentially dropped from the team. Especially to make such public personal attacks on those that help keep the wheels of the sport turning (even if you don't agree on the current direction or speed). But then again I'll probably be attacked myself for commenting. I was enjoying the discussions regarding the elite expectations of sprint mapping especially what James, Carsten and Ross had to say until it descended into potty talk.   rossmaxmo Posted: 1 May 2012, 1:16 PM   Good idea mcroxford, but I think you'll find that a lot of this 'potty talk' often comes from people older than yourself. I was also enjoying the pre:Iva discussion, however if someone is publicly attacked should they not have the right to defend themselves? I stood up for Robbie and then things got completely out of control. I don't believe my language was overly offensive, mostly sarcastic. And now that I see Iva's worst comments have been removed I can now remove my own. As usual, another thread is now totally off topic, perhaps that was Iva's agenda all along? I think rather than an age limit, a better solution would be to forbid anonymity.   DMjunior Posted: 1 May 2012, 1:28 PM   This message was edited by DMjunior on 2 May 2012, 11:25 AM   theoman Posted: 1 May 2012, 1:28 PM   I agree with you strongly ross. I too was enjoying the discussion about protests as this year was my first real experience at seeing a course come close to invalidation. The middle distance race was also invalidated for my course...After talking with a wiser man (Jamie) and reading everyones posts it was quite interesting to see how circumstantial an invalidation can be, but ultimately it sucks for someone regardless of the outcome.   mcroxford Posted: 1 May 2012, 1:44 PM   15, 27 and... oh look 27 minutes too! My interest is not in the mechanics of the protest but in the expectations / ramifications of our high performance athletes and how this balances against the skills and abilities of our administrators. The two must go hand in hand and both in this sport must complement each other (and on the odd occasion compliment each other). As I've posted previously I am intrigued with how pockets of good practice can be disseminated across the sport. As an orienteer who's returned to the sport after 15 years absence I find it interesting that the same issues seem to crop up than when I was a junior when the dinosaurs roamed the earth (as my kids are convinced of).   Jamie Posted: 2 May 2012, 1:36 AM   Duncan/Ross give the regular readers of this forum the benefit of the doubt that we love youse (and STB). A reputation isn't gained by shouting on Maptalk, but it can be lost .... trust me I've been there. I think Michaels point about expectation is a good one. I have argued for some time that the technological changes we have seen over the last ten years have provided huge improvements in our sport but at the cost of reducing our pool of volunteers who really aren't into all that technical/computer stuff...it used to be that you could plan and run a simple event without sitting behind a computer once...is this still true? This changing technology has now led to events like STB, with new course setting ideas/principles, amazingly detailed maps, radio controls, live results....and yes perhaps higher expectations of what a high quality event is. However, the fundamental expectation remains unchanged. An event needs to be fair. Course setters/controllers need to operate within the limits of their abilities and experience and be conscious firstly of fairness, secondly of challenge.   Dwayne Posted: 2 May 2012, 3:47 AM   I went to the controller training in Auckland on Sunday and we finished up with a walk on the map in question and looked at some of the hot spots. The main take away from the day for me was that the controller is first and foremost an advocate for the competitor and should ensure fairness as a top priority. The training was of great benefit to me because we looked closely at the problems being discussed and how they could have been avoided - either with map changes or course changes. I now have a new perspective for my future setting/controlling adventures. Trainings like those on Sunday are vital if we are to spread the knowledge required and raise the level of events to match the expectations of competitors   mcroxford Posted: 2 May 2012, 3:58 AM   Concur, wholeheartedly Dwayne.   theoman Posted: 2 May 2012, 7:41 AM   Just to clarify.."Hi Guys, I shall reveal my secret identity now.Im Matthew Ogden.I think monkeys know quite a lot." I was referring to the discussion on Alias'. I had not realised that my profile did not say who I was. The monkey statement was a light hearted response to the 'Iva' comment who said elites were monkeys who didn't know anything. I was just pointing out that the elites of NZ know quite a lot with quite a bit of international experience. As we could see with all the elites that I look up to making some really valid points. Please mcroxford dont accuse extremely passionate juniors of the crap that iva character said and suggest such horrific ramifications. I had an orienteer talk to my sister today about the matter...It felt a little bit like ross's metaphor. @Dwyane. I look forward to your events! You already make awesome races!   jeffg Posted: 2 May 2012, 8:46 AM   Or to put Dwayne's comment another way, the controller's job is to protect the competitors from the course setter. The controller training sounded really worthwhile. I must have missed the announcement for that, but would hope that A level controllers about the place are following this thread. Even within the A level ranks I'm sure there is a wide range of skill and experience, and it's good to have the opportunity to learn outside the (draining) process of controlling big events. A controller's forum, sort of like Maptalk but with the facility for posting small map images to aid discussion, might be a useful tool for controllers at all levels. Not sure how hard it would be to set up, but maybe it's something the revamped technical committee could look at?   DMjunior Posted: 2 May 2012, 11:33 AM   With the ever evolving technology available to orienteering events it is very easy to get carried away with the fancy stuff and neglect the basics. From experience with this technology i think the organizers need to remember that there is no point having fancy loops, radio displays and other nifty items if the competition is unfair. People will enjoy a standard no frills course that is fair and well working than a botched course where more effort is gone into the tech rather than the race.   pete s Posted: 14 May 2012, 11:24 AM   Or to put Jeff's comments on Dwaynes comments another way (??!!), the controllers job is to lift the capability of setters, so that they can learn how to set great events with minimal need for controller input. Personally if I am controlling an event, I try to ensure the setter feels like it is their course/s as much as possible. Admittedly easier to do with an experienced setter than an inexperienced one, and not at the expense of standards. I think there has been a drop in standards in recent times, so it is great to see some of the structures being re-established, and things such as controllers clinics being undertaken again. Overall, orienteering has a very good history of running quality events - compare it to other mapsport events such as adventure races and I think you'd argue it does pretty well (the last adventure race we did this year had a control almost a km out from where it was shown on the map!). But it was a shame to see stds fail at an A grade event, and I think its been a good wake up call - and great to see learning out of it.