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Sport Ident Organisational Matters

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 22 April 2008, 8:54 AM  
I raised a question about the "clear-and-check" process in another thread. Martin's right, organisational questions and answers could justify a new thread.

I was questioning whether "clear-and-check" was merely a time-honoured tradition which by repeating enough times became ingrained. I raised it because, at a punching start, I noticed some kids fail to get a beep at the start box. "Oh I know what we do," they said, "we clip on the map and away we go..." In other words the layout that failed to ensure they cleared also failed to ensure they checked.

John has suggested out that you CAN think you have cleared when you have not; so that justifies "clear-and-check" together. I think there's something to be said for ANOTHER check unit at the last feasible point before the start line.

Show Profile  John Marshall Posted: 22 April 2008, 9:36 AM  
It seems to me that the real organisational failure for the kids you mention was that there wasn't a big sign attached to the start unit saying

"Today there is a punching start. To start, punch this start box and start your course when it beeps and/or the light flashes.

"You MUST get a beep or flash of light, as this shows that your start time has been recorded. If the start box does not beep or flash, use the clear and check boxes again and try again; ask the organisers for help if that doesn't work."

IMHO (and admittedly to date I've been a bit lazy about pointing this out and fixing it myself), at least at Wellington, we've happily converted to electronic timing and unattended starts and finishes without paying enough attention to creating the signage that inexperienced people actually need, now that there are no humans at the start.

Later on, when I'm not at work :-), maybe I'll post about what I think the proper signage and layout would be. To be sure, making signs is boring, but we only have to do it once!

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 22 April 2008, 9:45 AM  
The longer the message, the less it gets read.

Show Profile  John Marshall Posted: 22 April 2008, 9:53 AM  
No kidding. Feel free to make the suggested text shorter while still saying everything it needs to say.

(And remember an actual sign can use formatting tricks to make it look shorter, which I didn't show here on maptalk.)

Show Profile  AlanHorn Posted: 22 April 2008, 2:20 PM  
The biggest problem Ive had is at relays - people werent Clearing even when they had to walk right past the box.
I guess a marshall with a big stick to hit the miscreants would help.

Show Profile  addison Posted: 22 April 2008, 4:57 PM  
What about a clear and check after people download onto the computer?

Show Profile  Martin Posted: 22 April 2008, 5:45 PM  
it's nice to have the security of being able to get people to download again later if something major happens to the computer system(s). I remember it happening at an event a few years ago, some people were asked to download the following day

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 28 April 2008, 9:43 AM  
In the South Island Champs thread there's a relevant posting about a problem uploading to Winsplits.

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 28 April 2008, 9:53 AM  
Addison confirms my theory that repetition has made people think of "clear and check" as a single process. If we cleared and checked after downloading, who would be brave enough to say that no additional check was required at the start of the next event?

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 24 June 2008, 4:30 PM  
Anyone got a failsafe way of ensuring that all starters are entered into the software? The situation I'm thinking of was a club event with punching self-start. Results tent was close to registration where the entry process was to fill in a slip of paper; and someone periodically took these to results for entry to the software. Nevertheless three people managed to start without creating a slip - and if they had not returned we wouldn't have known.

It's equally possible for people forget to leave the card stub at an unmanned start. But the hope is that SI will enable/encourage us to close these loopholes. Any ideas?

Show Profile  Alistair Posted: 24 June 2008, 6:13 PM  
Can't you have a gateway through which everyone should go through on the way to the start where you place the SI-Check unit. If anyone fails the "check" then you just need a small notice there saying that they need to go back and register. The SI-Clear thus needs to be held by the registration personel...

Show Profile  AlanHorn Posted: 25 June 2008, 7:48 AM  
We use the paper slip system - but to ensure they fill it in, we dont give them a map until they hand over the correctly filled in slip.

Theres still the issue of it not getting entered into the computer however.

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 25 June 2008, 10:44 AM  
SI have a registry system where you stick in your stick and it registers etc, I dont know why clubs are not using this feature it will save time and effort and solve the above problems

Show Profile  Michael Posted: 25 June 2008, 10:46 AM  
No map without start slip sounds fairly positive. Errors are then confined to the event workers.

Alistair's comment suggests an alternative - no clear without start slip - at registration OR at the computer tent where the info is actually required. And then check is where it should be - right next to the start.



Show Profile  Michael Posted: 25 June 2008, 10:50 AM  
Tell me more Greg. I can envisage that a box can recognise an e-card but (on a club event) how does it know name course and class?

Show Profile  AlanHorn Posted: 25 June 2008, 10:54 AM  
I havent really sussed out how to use the SI chip Archive feature for the simple reason about 50% of people at out club events are renting chips - and they all have to be entered each time.

You then need to manually delete the "rental" chips from the Archive after the event. Though I noticed from one the SportIdent yahoogroup emails that this can easily be done.




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