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world champs review

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 27 August 2007, 10:18 PM  
Hey looking forward to your world champs review and comparison Gormeister, it might help less informed people write media articles ;-)

Show Profile  onemanfanclub Posted: 28 August 2007, 8:54 AM  
Nothing too flash, just hit the right combination of bored and curious between WOC races to do a bit of research and compile lists of the top 20 NZ individual male and female results in world champs history. (originally I decided on 15, but between having a several-way tie for 15th on one of the lists, and deciding it was just too cruel that Ross made it into the 15 then got bumped off a couple of days later, 20 seemed like no less an arbitrary number) While there's all sorts of problems trying to directly compare results across world champs with different numbers of events, qualifying regimes etc, I reckon it gives at least some historical perspective on how good our current best orienteers are, and whether NZ is improving, falling or standing still at least in terms of individual performances (to look at overall team standards, you'd have to consider qualification rates and/or relay results).

Anyway, to be a bit of a bastard I'll publish the list in a few days, but til then here's a few things to consider. It's probably no surprise how much the women's list is dominated by one name (taking half the places), and who that is, but can anyone name all the other 6 on the list, and/or those who feature more than once?

What are the 8 names that appear on the men's top 20 (I've given you one! Two even if you think about it)? Who are the 2 male orienteers that are very closely vying for most appearances? - one has had more opportunities per world champs, but the other (to date) has a longer career, and they actually swapped 1st and 2nd when I changed from a top 15 to a top 20! How many places down the list before anyone else gets a look in?

Considering the two lists together, one world champs stands well above the rest in terms of the number of top individual results achieved by kiwis - again probably not too hard to guess which. But where do you think Ukraine 07 stands? Those who remember the glory days of Czechoslovakia 91 and Scotland 99 (or any other WOCs that may have stuck in your mind), where do you think they stand?

More in a few days... until then please send your answers on the back of a cheque to....

This message was edited by onemanfanclub on 28 August 2007, 3:57 PM

Show Profile  ACW Posted: 28 August 2007, 10:05 AM  
A surname that makes it on to both the male and female lists?

Youngest, oldest in the top 20 WOC performaces?



Show Profile  Jenni Posted: 28 August 2007, 10:26 AM  
I think these some of these stats actually existed already as I've seen it in some of the High Performance suff Carsten has. I think Michael Wood actually compiled the original version and emailed it out to all of the sqaud in one of his reports/strategic plans. Carsten has been using it with various extra bits to work out the endorsed athlete scheme and possible selection criteria etc. So don't be too surprised if some people can give you very accurate responses!

I would think that results achieved this year could be some of the most impressive considering the depth of nations at this year's WOC (especially compared to say, Japan when there were a number of significant countries missing but even compared with Denmark - the Eastern Europeans might be the best represented that they ever have been...?)

Show Profile  The Clem Posted: 28 August 2007, 12:48 PM  
It's pretty hard to compare Ukraine to any WOC's in the memories of the current team. Both Rob J' and Tania's memories go back to at least 1989 (10 and 11 WOC's respectively). This year was unlike any WOC previously experienced by the team. I've got so many collective comments by the top guys and girls this year from many nations that will never be published and at this stage can't think how to politely air them.
Without being able to send a full NZ team ( contrary to what I would normally think, this might have been a blessing as there could have been damage done to our aspiring yongsters), and not having any kind of support for this years campaign except Carsten's blood and sweat, I'll agree with Jenni and say our guys did extemely well. Sometime when I've had time to compose myself, I'll try and write about how stunning the adversities were that all nations were up against. I'm still trying to fathom what just happened at WOC.

Show Profile  Chris Forne Posted: 28 August 2007, 5:10 PM  
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the support, its great to hear all the goss/speculation about WOC going on back home.
This years WOC has been a bit of a mixed bag, not quite the results I was hoping for, but couldn't really expect much better given my limited buildup for this years WOC.

First up the sprint qualifier went reasonably well, one ~30sec mistake plus a number of small time losses but otherwise reasonably happy with my run.
Next came long qualifier, 3 bigger mistakes costing about 4min, plus one poor route choice costing ~1min plus a sore ankle. Dispite these I was quite pleased as I felt pretty comfortable out in the terrain so was looking forward to final.
Middle qualifier didn't go quite so well, never really felt at home in terrain and made a few reasonable to large mistakes.

Then came the finals and relay.
Unfortunately the weather was riduculously hot for the long final ~35-36 deg. and I seemed to overheat, loosing a reasonable amount of time through poor orienteering, bad route choices and generally slow running. Lesson here for future was to try and really focus hard on orienteering even though I was struggling to motivate myself during race.

Next there was the relay. I made 2 dump mistakes in relay, loosing close to 3min, but otherwise a good run. Again slightly more concentration required, and making sure I check control descriptions at appropriate times.

Finally sprint final, this went pretty well for most of the race, but I completely stuffed it up near the end, by again checking my control numbers at an inappropriate time and losing concentration briefly and making an ~30sec mistake, otherwise an easy top 20, arrr!
I decided in hot weather, purhapse sprint is where I have the best chance rather than long.

Oh well another fun WOC, and definitely a good Orineteering experience. It has certainly fired me up again to get back into some more o-ing. And hopefully provided a few good lessons on things to improve.

Chris

Show Profile  HeadHoncho Posted: 29 August 2007, 12:19 AM  
I can name 5 guys str8 away:

J Robinson (1976)
R Jessop (1993)
A Landels (1997)
C Forne (2003)
K Dravitzki (2005)

If Ross makes it on the list, then that's 6, I'd guess Dash for 7 (Japan) - now I'm struggling. Maybe Barbour scrapes in at 8 for his 39th in 1991?

Women is easy: Tan, Katie (1991), Marquita (1995?), Tone (1997), Rach (2004), Jenni (1999) and ummm ... hmmm ... maybe Trish in 1985 gets on the list?

And yes, Japan 2005 stands out like dogs balls when it comes to individual results.

This all done off the top of my head. Score out of 10 please?

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 29 August 2007, 1:02 AM  
C Forne (2005)



Show Profile  James Posted: 29 August 2007, 4:59 AM  
well if your going on top 20 performances, i rank Ukraine, japan and norway about equal with 5 top 20's in each?

Yeah i think greg B makes into the top 20. apart form that Rob C's guesses look pretty good.

Women who have made top 20 more than once: Tania, Tone & Rach??

Most male appearances: Alistair 6x, Chris 5x ???

Oldest & youngest....Tania for both??? 21years old in USA, 35 years old in Ukraine....What a legend



Show Profile  rob.g Posted: 29 August 2007, 6:06 AM  
Tania was in Sweden in 1989 as a 17?? yr old.
James, youre miles out on appearances, as Rob J has done all but one since 1991, and Chris is a relative newcomer who started in Switzerland, and has now done 3.
By the way who got a top 20 in Ukraine? You've been dreaming, James, although there were a heap of finalists, so it was a really high quality team.

Show Profile  James Posted: 29 August 2007, 7:43 AM  
Sorry rob, i was working on the top 20 performances by NZers (male & female), not actually top 20 placings (cos then there would only be 3?)
So i wasnt saying chris had been to 5 WOC's, just that he had 5 of the 20 NZ mens top performances. And i know Rob j has been to many a WOC but i think he only has 2 of NZ's top male performances.....
So of tania's top 20 performances, her first being in '93, then the latest in '07.

I know i sometimes i have very blonde hair, but im not quite that far off the mark rob

This message was edited by James on 29 August 2007, 2:45 PM

Show Profile  addison Posted: 29 August 2007, 7:57 AM  
Having WOC's every 2 years back in the day stuffs your analysis up though.

Show Profile  Neil K Posted: 29 August 2007, 8:16 AM  
yes I agree Simon, in the old days WOC was every two years means that WOC used to be every two years. Now that WOC is every year, it means that WOC is every year.

This message was edited by Neil K on 29 August 2007, 7:14 PM

This message was edited by Neil K on 29 August 2007, 7:16 PM

Show Profile  James Posted: 29 August 2007, 8:31 AM  
which is why gorman pointed that out from the onset, that you cant really compare one woc with another. But i thought id play the game anyway

Show Profile  James Posted: 29 August 2007, 8:38 AM  
if you're going to point out a few more differences.......
the early days didnt have middle distance (first added in 1993?), let alone sprint distance (which first appeared in 2001, but only one runner from each country participated, so the results look a bit better...)

Show Profile  onemanfanclub Posted: 29 August 2007, 8:59 AM  
Ahh, I'm enjoying this so far... Simon, James, above points noted, and one of the reasons I'm still not posting THE LIST is I've been mentally composing the preamble about why only so much weight can be put on it. Basically there's two arguments for it being easier to get on THE LIST now and two for it being harder. Two of them almost cancel each other out in my mind, the other two maybe not so. There's some good answers coming up, people know their NZ orienteering history.

Great to hear from Clem and Chris - look forward to reading Clem's words when he's ready to go on the record, and getting him together with a few beers to hear the rest!


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