 Jamie
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Posted: 22 May 2007, 12:14 PM
probably the one where neil moved the control into the right place elmo
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Neil K
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Posted: 22 May 2007, 12:38 PM
This message was edited by Neil K on 22 May 2007, 8:40 PM
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Neil K
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Posted: 22 May 2007, 12:45 PM
I moved a control when about half the field had been through. I informed the organisers (a bit late). To my knowledge Carsten was the person who was disadvantaged the most (he was disqualified), I don't think he told the organisers (too polite??) So after seeking advice from others I asked for them to reinstate him. The organisers suggested they would. I'm not aware of any other top ten elites being significantly affected by the control.
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SimonB
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Posted: 22 May 2007, 1:39 PM
what a guy
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James
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Posted: 22 May 2007, 10:59 PM
I'd still attend Labour weekend if it wasnt superseries. Two area champs in one weekend........It's gonna rock!
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addison
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Posted: 23 May 2007, 10:48 AM
Re your protest comments Jenni, no offence intended, but I think they are full of shit.
Protesting because the organisers are the type who like to protest? What a crock of shit. Howsabout finding a proper reason to protest such as a control being in the wrong place, ohh wait that is fair according to you.
Also, regarding the fact that you never protest: Asking for time to be removed because of something like that is actually regarded as protesting. The end result of the protest if allowed is to have time removed. Are you saying you have NEVER done that?
For one that is so smart you do say some stupid stuff sometimes.
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Jamie
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Posted: 23 May 2007, 11:07 AM
Down in the south island it has been known for one competitor to have time removed following problems with an incorrect control...rather than invalidating a course...
Protesting is a painful but important way of maintaining standards and fairness in our sport...both of the situations this year should have been protested as they influenced the outcome (winner) of the event
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Paul I
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Posted: 23 May 2007, 12:03 PM
This message was edited by Paul I on 23 May 2007, 8:28 PM
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Paul I
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Posted: 24 May 2007, 3:32 AM
Not that this has much to do about the Super Series but just on the topic of the protest stuff...
I presume Jenni's dodgy course comment was refering to the TAMOC Event 4 at W/L. I'm not the type to protest, never have - however I swear there must have been something very dodgy with the control placement and map in the rough open area. On Red 2, seriously after 15 minutes I really couldn't find number 17 (103), thinking it must have been tampered with I packed it in and went on to number 18 (104)where I must have spent another 15 minutes, after neally throwing it in again, the only reason I found it is because Martin Peat or someone else shouted out that he stumbled upon it, there were people scavenging all over the place like huntsmen looking for a fox. Unfortunately for me there was no one at the previous control trying to flush out the fox while I was there.
I don't link after all my years of O and mapmaking anyone could suggest I just had a bad day.
The point is that if this had been a trial, or a championship event, then even though I'm not inclined to protest, someone would have and should have. The results were not fair by any stretch of the imagination. If there is such a thing as a bingo control, I just experienced two of them.
If the hardworking course setter and controller are privy to this, I found the rest of the course great even though I made a couple of other small errors while trying to play catch up. But this should be a wake up call to all setters, bingo controls have no place especially in important events.
Did any of you have the same frustrations here or were you just lucky?
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Martin
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Posted: 24 May 2007, 5:55 AM
Wasn't me, I was hobbling around with a camera.
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Paul I
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Posted: 24 May 2007, 7:12 AM
Might have been your bro, he was definately frustrated and like me, swore a lot.
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Michael
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Posted: 24 May 2007, 9:33 AM
Alleged dodgy controls would be better discussed in the thread "Quality Control".
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Jenni
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Posted: 24 May 2007, 10:31 AM
I didn't ask for time to be removed. The organizers suggested it as they felt bad. We agreed that it would only be something to do if the other competitors agreed which they didn't. That was that.
I haven't said that protesting shouldn't be done. I specifically said it was a personal thing and I don't do it.
I do argue with unjust (in my opinion) disqualifications, especially with people who themselves complain when anything isn't right. I would have been very unlikely to debate with those who don't like protests. I didn't protest (as I've already said once) I suggested a protest could be lodged because the race conditions were not the same for all (again as I've already written). This would have been the reason for the protest. The reason I mentioned it was because I knew the organizers like protests (as in people should when things aren't right).
I like to debate which is why I write things here. Personally I don't find them stupid, nor do a lot of other people who tell me they agree with me. And think that I shouldn't waste my time arguing with those who write on maptalk. It is true it is a bit disappointing when people you're debating with come back by rephrasing what you said into something you didn't say or worse don't come back with any arguments other than just saying you're stupid or you need a grip on reality. There's no fun in debating with that. So I guess I shouldn't waste any more time doing it.
This message was edited by Jenni on 24 May 2007, 6:38 PM
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Neil K
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Posted: 24 May 2007, 10:46 AM
I love debates aswell.
You say you don't like protest Jenni. But you argue with unjust disqualifications. What i get from that is that you would rather argue/bully/infleunce an indivual (the controller), rather than follow a formal proceedure that would have more independent qualified committee decide upon the issue and reccommend the fairest outcome.
Why is it that athletes have a bad stigma about protesting? The cause just as much hurt to the organisers when they winge, complain and argue with them. If a protest is an over reaction to a very minor issue than surely the committee can decide to let the results stand. Why are we so afraid of protests...surely if the results are bullshit they will just make it official rather than having the "cover up" that occurs now.
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Jenni
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Posted: 24 May 2007, 11:07 AM
OK that's a good point. I guess that I am referring to protests as protests to say a course should be viod. I would put in a protest saying someone shouldn't be disqualified if I thought they'd been unfairly disqualfied. I didn't in the particular case we're talking about. But I'll think about it in future. I would want that if the protest was upheld that the person was reinistated rather than the all the results disappearing but you probably couldn't decide that. It would be up to the controller.
I've changed my mind then I'll now protest in future when people are unfairly disqualified. It's still true, that at this point in time, that I have never protested.
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