 nick
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Posted: 9 May 2006, 6:11 AM
Getting a bit big for you boots Tane.
Club members give up their own time to run SS events so that you can flounce in on a travel subsidy, run around course one and then flounce home again. Its bloody arrogant of you to then say thats not good enough; that clubs should also have to sell it to you as well! Elite level orienteering gets a helluva lot of support from "we" non-elite orienteering peons (paid in time energy and money)... so I agree with Jeff. There is a moral responsibilty for you as an "elite" to at least show up for the races "we" put on for you.
Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that because you're "elite", that everyone else has to bend over backwards to please you all the time. Its a two way street bro and you've gotta repay some of the effort thats made for you. And obviously, that goes out to any elite who liked the sound of what Tane was saying.
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Greg
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Posted: 9 May 2006, 6:23 AM
Last year certain elites were complaining that there were not enough of the right type of events and at the right times. With the past weekend included some special events have been put on, and big group of those in the first sentence didn't bother to show.
My point of view "Fucken Piss Poor!"
Both Northern and Southern have taken a hit from no shows, Good on ya central, can you name any of your runners that have not turned up to a super series event, or complained about whats being done for us.
I'd like to retract my comment about the last event noting going to be any good, it was a bloody good effort and deserved our following as WE asked for it.
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Eponine_
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Posted: 9 May 2006, 7:05 AM
Tane plz take teh ss lmore serious in teh future. kthnx.
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Neil K
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Posted: 9 May 2006, 7:46 AM
Just a little background about the super series. The idea was that we needed to designate some events that our elites would all decide were important events and compete seriously at. The idea was simply to co-ordinate competition and not have everyone trying hard for different events. So we allocate some events as Super Series.
One of the goals when we started the series was that we wouldn't expect an extra workload to be put on clubs and organisers. We would simply choose the best possible events we could and if organisers were willing to alter existing events with no extra work to suit the super series format than that was great.
Part of this was for National Squad members to help with some of the "Super" things like commentry, elite promotion and hype. It was also hoped that if we did a good job with these things, then other organisers would realise the benifit to having an atmosphere at events.
I find it very rude and embaressing when elites tell volunteers that an event isn't up to super series standard, when it was elites who allocated it Super Series status. On that note, I will say that last weekend was awesome. Red Kiwis did a great job. The sprint race that was put on especially for us was one of the best ever held in NZ and should have cost me more than $6.
This message was edited by Neil K on 9 May 2006, 3:48 PM
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Tane Cambridge
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Posted: 9 May 2006, 12:10 PM
Hmm, it seems I'm digging myself a bit of a deep, deep hole here...but...
First of all I'm not trying to say that the quality of the event held was crap...how could I do that it I never showed up!!!
I am just suggesting some ideas as to why a lot of elites never showed up.... And I possibly got a bit carryed away with some stuff that I didnt know alot about...being new to the whole scene.
I didnt realise that the elites allocated which races were to be the Super Series. And I apologize to anyone, which appears to be a lot of people, that I pissed off, for trying to make out that I knew anything to start with.
I will be a good boy and show up next time
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SimonB
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Posted: 9 May 2006, 2:05 PM
whipped
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SJ
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Posted: 9 May 2006, 2:11 PM
Neil makes a really good point, and Nick too. The majority of the people in orienteering in New Zealand are only doing it for recreation, socially, and do not want to have to be putting in hours and hours of work for a few people in the sport. I also know that when I am involved in organising an event, I like to hear that it went well.
And that is exactly what I will say to the Red Kiwis club, and I think perhaps Wellington and Hutt Valley were involved too...? Anyway it was a great event - well organised and with courses of high quality. The results were up super quick, which is always good, and the organisers were friendly, flexible and helpful. The only thing which I thought could have been improved on the part of the organisers would have been Sport Ident for the OY. A big improvement that could have been made though, would be to have had a decent elite showing. Let's face it: when I'm running an elite course I love to get a good placing inside the top 10, but I shouldn't be able to.
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Jamie
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Posted: 10 May 2006, 2:53 PM
Some of you guys like to talk in riddles and speak half truths.
1) RK put on a super series event at the request of the former HP Director(my understanding)and it sounded like it was good. I wish I could have gone.
2)'Elites'whatever this means (National squad only?) didn't allocate anything. I actually unsuccesfully emailled and phoned the former HP Director late last year requesting this event be cut from the programme given that at the time funding was unavailable.
3)Saying elites have a "moral obligation" to attend superseries events is like saying every worker has to join a union, pay the levees and show up at all the strikes. We all operate our own little moral balance sheets and we repay these in various ways.
4) The event was only being funded 50%, not fully as stated on another thread, and the money is sourced from pub charity not general NZOF funds or other orienteers pockets.
Tanes suggestion probably wasn't worded the best, but he copped a ridiculous ammount of crap for what was in essence a fair comment on the marketing of the event. A helluva lot of work was spent organising this event a bit more profile would have seen more people enjoying it.
The event was not well promoted within the elite community.
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Greg
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Posted: 10 May 2006, 3:59 PM
As an elite I look for events to go to Jamie, not the other way round.
It is on the super series program, that program was emailed to every National squad member, it is on the super series website and was re-enforced to you and other elites by the elites who knew that slack ass' like yourself would be to useless to have bothered to know what is going on.
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Jamie
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Posted: 11 May 2006, 1:32 AM
Whatever Greg.
Like you I was fully aware of the super series programme and I was one of the elites trying to alert/encourage others.
Some people (including elites) have other stuff in their lives to keep them busy. And some, including at least one Northern Knight I can think of, do need to be reminded about orienteering events.
By the way, 'elites' go to orienteering races, run them, finish, and don't sit around in the finish chute melodramatically swearing trying to be the centre of attention even though they have had a shit run.
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mark
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Posted: 11 May 2006, 5:34 AM
Whatever Jamie.
I know I will never offer to help out with a super series event again.
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Greg
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Posted: 11 May 2006, 6:18 AM
You bloody well did not, I told you and your response was of total surprise as to when it was.
I'm hitting at out at all zones Jamie, I'm more pissed off a few of the Northerners than any Southerner.
Elites might not have a "moral obligation" to attend every orienteering event, but I would think that orienteering scholarship recipients would have a "moral obligation" to attend what is selected as "important events to compete seriously at", and have no right to then complain about the funding for an event when they receive an extra $2000 through out the year.
If it’s not obvious Jamie I couldn't give a rats ass about what other people think about me. If I did I would post abuse and other comments under a fake name. (I would call John McEnroe an Elite of his chosen sport)
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Jamie
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Posted: 11 May 2006, 6:38 AM
yeah at Nationals I was surprised it was still on, since I hadn't heard anything about it since December
John McEnroe was a tennis genius and a dickhead
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Bryan
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Posted: 12 May 2006, 6:37 AM
Just my two bobs worth from an old fella.
This whole discussion reminds me of when I was in the Squad and was asked by the Elites to put on a training weekend in the Wairarapa. I did a lot of work and only one elite turned up (Mark McKenna) from the north of Wellington. This still rankles me ten years later and in a Squad newsletter I nicknamed it 'The Woodhill Syndrome' complaining about the Auckland elites - North of the Bombay hills - who chose not to participate even after we all agreed to have the event.
For the current Superseries round it was probably unfortunately scheduled less then one month after the nationals
where most elites should have been peaking and also should now be in a bit of an off-season. To my mind however, New Zealand does not have enough competition for the elites and from my running background I know that the way to be truly competitive is to have more competition and races. So for the elites who chose not to participate I can only say that they missed a good event, and typically for sports elites who pick and chose, they will
end up usually not being chosen (to represent their country).
I would have loved to have been subsidised when I was an elite as I went to every competition that was on.
I can also not fathom why elites choose not to run in OYs.
When I was in Auckland (and won the OY series 3 years in a row), there was always a small turnout of elites at OYs.
In Wellington last year, Michael Wood (over 50) won the OY series after a lamentable turnout of elites at most OYs.
How can elites get really good if they are only racing several times a year and chose to miss real competition on offer?
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Jamie
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Posted: 12 May 2006, 7:03 AM
Elites are like normal people, they do stuff cause they enjoy it.
If they don't enjoy OY's they don't do them, they do other stuff that they enjoy.
Don't be a kill joy
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