 Wetfish
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Posted: 17 July 2004, 1:50 PM
The NZSS to go to Australia shall be selected supposidly based on the performances of individuals at the NZSSC.
Will this be the case?
We have people who have screwed a control big time and then DNFing, and decided that it is better to say they were really sick, instead of showing a true performance.
The New Zealand Secondary School Championships is probably the second most important event for Juniors (behind the "real" nationals).
Does throwing in the towel show any sort of commitment?
I know of a competitor whose shoes got totally fucked, so he ran the second half of the race in bare feet. He didn't make up some pussy excuse and DNF so he didn't look bad on the results sheet.
Even if you do take 30mins on the first control. Even if you do decide to DNF. Don't make fake excuses.
That first control was easy to fuck up. But easy to relocate. What am I trying to say here? Go figure.
The NZ SS team is the main goal for most juniors. People who did well shouldn't miss out because a person who didn't was selected on reputation not form.
By the way, despite the weather, the event was cool. The indoor prizegiving worked really well and its a shame that most events don't have the facilities on the map for that.
Let's hope next years event is even better.
Yours Truly,
Wetfish.
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addison
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Posted: 17 July 2004, 1:56 PM
I would also like to add to those comments. I know of a junior male competitor who at the spectator control was about to DNF because he was having a bad control and couldnt handle having his actual time be posted showing how bad his run was. After convincing him to do the course, he completed the course but rather than have his time posted, he double clipped the 2nd to last control (putting one in the last box also), and not clipping actual last control, just so he didnt get a result. This is the biggest case of sore loser I have seen and I told this individual I thought of him like that. As a favourite to retain his Intermediate Boys title Duncan should be disgraced.
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James
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Posted: 17 July 2004, 3:08 PM
far out! i saw some awesome talent this weekend! and when i took a slightly closer look at the results some interesting things presented themselves!!
like amber blitzing the senior boys km rate 
she did something like 8.5min/km daniel doing just under 10min/km
girls rule and boys druel
then how good was the comp for the intermediate boys title??
well apart for thomas winning by almost 4min, the next 3 places all on 34min!! and they were doing about the same km rate as amber!
and thomas doing about 7.5min/km!!!!
really interested to see who they pick for the nzss team to compete in aussie!!
Ive done a liitle selection of my own (although not 100% sure of who is eligable for which grade)
Senior boys:
daniel stott
sam mcnally
riki cambridge
now 4th pick thats hard!!
robert if he did some training and got fast!
or richard if he can pull it together mentally??
senior girls:
amber morrison
lizzie ingham
Frances peat?? hows bads her injury?? she proved last year she got the speed and skills 2nd place wasnt it!
kate rea (although not always the most consistant, proved that shes got the talent, and let me tell you shes got the speed, which is so essential in aussie! plus the enormus potential needs to be nurtuered)
Junior boys:
thomas reynolds
andrew peat
jack vincent
simon jager
(sorry dont know if cairan is all better with his lung/breathing, so dont know if he can train/race fast enough in aussie)
Junior girls:
georgia whitla
cara macdonald
helen goodwin (sorry cant remember if thats your fist name, but its the correct last one!)
nicola peat (this family rocks!)
now these are just done in my head, without results!
so i may have missed someone off who should be in there
so if thats you, dont be offended and think that i dont like you!!
i tried asking bryn for some results, but you all konw thats as effective as asking a pig for an interview!!
but im quite confident i got most of it right!
guess we just wait and see what the selectors think!
james
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Michael
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Posted: 18 July 2004, 1:45 AM
For those of us not on the spot, what happened in the relays???
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Dave Mcc
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Posted: 18 July 2004, 3:11 AM
I reckon we should have a seperate forum just for the schools talk because there is quite a bit going down......
Post-race break down
A quick run down of the results passed onto me from my "sources"
Senior Boys Champs:
Daniel Stott 59:23
Sam McNally 60:28
Riki Cambridge 71:59
Just over 2 minutes between 1st and third....
Senior Boys Standard
George MacMillian 48:54
Sam Seabourne 49:29
Lewis Jenkin 54:47
Senior Girls Championship
Amber Morrison 43:42
Lizzie Ingham 53:41
Rita Holmes 59:59
Amber confirming herself as one of the nation's top girls. 10 minutes
Senior Girls Standard
Stephanie McPhail 66:58
Laura Wallis 72:20
Amanda Haslett 72:43
Intemediate Boys Champ
Thomas Reynolds 30:38
Andrew Peat 34:08
Jack Vincent 34:15
Thomas Reynolds did pull through after showing his stuff at camp last year. This guy has alot of potential and wants to win. Good combo
Intermediate Boys Standard
Angus MacKenzie 33:40
Ryan Woolley 36:15
Tom Myers 37:39
Intermediate Girls Champs
Kate Rea 35:13
Emma Watson 35:39
Georgia Whitla 39:19
This result is one of my favourites. 26 seconds is not alot of time over a 35 minute period. But Kate has finally proved that she has the stuff.
Intermediate Girls Standard
Sheridan Clerke 40:30
Cheri Toller 44:33
Sophie Fargher 47:45
Junior Boys Champ
Sam Eames 29:00
Aari Barrett 31:33
Scott MacDonald 33:36
I had a feeling that Sam would win this grade. And Wetfish, your Scott MacDonald showed some class.
Junior Boys Standard
Christo Crieffer 17:11
Kieran Callaghan 19:53
Rory Hart 21:08
Junior Girls Champ
Nicole Peat 25:54
Kate Morrison 26:47
Helen Watson 28:15
The Peat family once again. Is this the beginning of another young champion? 5th to Emma price who then ran in the intermediate girls winning relay for Chilton.....
Yr7/8 Boys Champ
Ryan Cambridge 31:34
Duncan Morrison 33;50
Timothy Stott 44:40
Now isn't this nice. Ryan's older brother - Riki - third in senior boys. Ol Duncan Morrison following in the family footsteps and Amber winning senior girls. And Timothy Stott having a third place in this grade to compliment Daniels win. These whanau must be stoked.
Yr7/8 Boys Standard
Liam Patterson 22:15
Peter van Oosterom 22:23
Benjamin Whitehead 33:09
Yr7/8 Girls Champ
Angela Simpson 25:54
Laura Robertson 35:28
Emily Dinsdale 39:26
Yr7/8 Girls Standard
Emma Goodwin 21:13
Elizabeth Buckenberg 25;18
Sian Palmer 27:06
Other things to note. Man of the comp I think should go to Robert Patterson. Screw having a team for the relay, I wanna do it all myself. He ran all 3 legs and finished in 4th place. Maybe james he is trying to get fit.....
I feel selecting the team for Aussie should be done on both NISS and NZSSC because a bad run one day shouldn't cost you a plane flight, but two shockers should.
So on the whole - throw in the towel - affair lets have a think. Stop picking on Richard. Sometimes being sick is actually a very valid excuse. Sure it sounds cheap and nasty but do you think he would really throw away his only real chance at winning Schools so easily?
Last year at a Wellington OY/schools race there was a control in this big patch of gorse that was in the wrong place, or so I thought. I wondered around for half an hour getting cut up and split open. Eventually however I went to this big as feature, a tower, took a bearing and found it so easy. I finished the course in 2 hours 10 and in first place over a field of about 14 or 15. I was so close to giving it in but thought I have come so far why stop now.
With Richard, nature can do some very harsh stuff to people. But why would Duncan, after running the whole course, give it up at the second to last control. Sure he was defending champ but the reason behind double clipping I guess we will never know.
Lets look on the bright side of life....... Amber winning by ten of so minutes then the rest of the fields literally minutes between the top places. Seconds parting 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
So thumbs up to the Rotorua club. I hear it was a top event and that it was really enjoyed. The results show good course setting and planning. All I can say now is good luck to the selectors.... and can we get our own thread?
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addison
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Posted: 18 July 2004, 3:31 AM
In regards to being 'sick'.
Sure, if you are sick it is a valid excuse. But is it valid enough to pull out of the only selection race? If it is the only selection race, one would think you would do everything possible to at least finish your race and then blame your slower time on being sick. It would be obvious that you were sick at the finish if you actually were sick.
After coming to the finish to DNF, and saying nothing about big mistakes on the early control(s), then blaming the DNF solely on being sick is not really on. Before the race the individual in question was fine, and was fine after DNFing, was fine the next day. More mind over matter if you ask me. When questioned about his bad first control, after I did see him having a shocker, he admitted it wasnt going all to plan.
"Do you think he would really throw away his only real chance at winning Schools so easily?". Yes. He was the favourite and the competiton was hot in terms of fitness and home advantage. For the first time he was favourite, which puts a lot of pressure on an individual to perform. Some perform, some crack. It is my honest opinion he did not show enough to prove he wants to go to Australia. Surely if you want to be in the team, finishing one course would be the least you could do.
"the reason behind double clipping I guess we will never know". I explained it already David. He did it to get DSQ'd so that his time would not be shown in the results. Its a simple case of sore loser. But at least he didnt throw the towel in after one or two controls.
I believe Thomas is 2nd year Intermediate, which in my mind would put him in the Senior Boys team. Simon Jager is 1st year Intermediate, making him a sure favourite for the Junior Boys team yet again for Australia. Not too sure on Andrew Peat, I suspect he is 2nd year Intermediate and it wil be hard for him to make that team. Perhaps as a reserve. Amber as captain of the whole team, if she is able to run for the school team with her commitment to the elite team.
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addison
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Posted: 18 July 2004, 3:34 AM
Michael Im not too sure about the relays.
Chilton won Int Girls.
Te Puke won Senior Boys.
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Wetfish
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Posted: 18 July 2004, 5:19 AM
I reckon...
Senior Boys
Daniel Stott
Sam Mcnally
Riki Cambridge
Robert Patterson
Senior Girls
Amber Morrison
Francis Peat
Rita Holmes
Lizzie Ingham
Junior Boys
Thomas Reynolds
Andrew Peat
Jack Vincent
Simon Jager
Junior Girls
Cara McDonald
Nicola Peat
Kate Morrison
Rachel Goodwin
Andrew Peat and Thomas Reynolds are 1st year intermediate.
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Dave Mcc
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Posted: 18 July 2004, 9:03 AM
Hmmmmmm......
Wefish. No disrespect to Robert, but I would rather be sending Richard to Australia. He has been before and shown that on the day he can perform. One bad day amongst the gums shouldn't be enough to rule him out straight away.
Since Robert did his knee in at the relay last year I feel he has never been the same. It feels that he is always there or there abouts. Lets be honest about this. Your team just seems to be the top 4 in each grade, except for Francis.
Look to NISS this year then and refer back to the 'Tineke had a fluke' saga. She bet Amber yes, but many would say that Amber actually lost the race and therefor beaten etc etc. In your case however you are saying that Tineke, because she came first on one occasion should be included in the team to Australia ahead of Amber if that was Nationals....... Nice one.... No Kate Rea.... Thought a few minutes ago you were talking about taking only the winners.
The fact that we know Sam and Daniel did not have flukes though comes from a few key results which I'm sure many are familiar with. Nationals 2004. It's only top 5 for M18A and W18A. Notice the names that keep popping up.
Sprint
Guys - Daniel Stott,Thomas Reynolds,Simon Addison,Sam McNally,Andrew Peat
Gals - Francis Peat,Rita Holmes,Melanie michels,Sarah Gray,Tessa Ramsden
Classic
Guys - Simon,Daniel,Sam,Richard,Riki
Gals - Lizzy Ingham,Rita Holmes,Ane (norway),Sarah Gray,Tessa Ramsden
Middle
Guys - Richard, Simon, Daniel Barnfield, Daniel Stott,Robert
and gals - Lizzy,Francis,Rita,Ane (norway)Sarah.
Now wet "deep sea" fish. I know it says schools team but they will racing so much over there I think it has more to do with consistency. Out of all the races at Nationals this year Richard has beaten both Riki and Robert in all three races and again at NISS. Take Simon out and in most cases you will have Daniel Stott, Richard Glover, Sam McNally and Riki Cambridge. Sam and Riki nor Robert have won a National title but that word again - consistency - comes into the fray.
And on that note I shall rest my case. Consistant performances are going to be the key over two weeks of racing, not a fluke and certainly not a very rare pull out.
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addison
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Posted: 18 July 2004, 9:25 AM
Let me reiterate again David. This issue is not about anything personal about Richard, but it is an issue about the attitude he took in the 'trial'.
A few scenarios can occur. Imagine if an All Black in the trial was having a shocking first five minutes, maybe a game such as Ben Blair having in the Super 12 Final. If this All Black trialist who was favoured to get picked in the team, just said 'bugger this' and then made up the excuse that he was sick, would he get in the All Blacks. Get Real. Even if the All Black actually was sick, he would play on and give it his all. This is why I have an issue with Richard DNFing.
The second thing is that Richard did pull out of the trial. Nobody made him other than himself. He made the decision to pull out of the trial, and therefore the NZSS team. It is unfair for another individual who actually may have been sick, to push through the pain of the course and actually finish. They in my eyes even if they are not a better orienteer, they do deserve to be in the NZSS Team over someone that mentally couldnt handle being favourite.
Sam McNally had a severly infacted leg that for any normal race would result in his Dr ruling him out. Instead the Dr and Sam worked together and he was allowed to run, just. He was severly impared, but stuck it out because 'IT WAS A TRIAL AND NATIONALS'.. and 2nd place shows this. Good on you Sam. Robert finished the course, the trial. He is therefore eligable to be picked in the team that he trialed for.
Wetfish's selections are basically on the ball, as this was the selection race and therefore if you get up there you basically have earned a way into the team.
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Jamie
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Posted: 18 July 2004, 11:26 AM
Kia ora, sounds like an awesome event was had. Makes me feel a bit old and I am looking forward to getting thrashed by all these talents when they show up in elite (or perhaps M21AS ;-)).
Hey people make mistakes (if you never have then just wait) and the NZSS champs is pretty unforgiving...one race counts for all. So watch your tongue when it comes to criticising others cause you might be next.
I DNF'ed my only JWOC classic primarily because I got mentally destroyed by a Macedonian guy following me around 1metre behind me for the first 30 minutes as I completely ballsed up controls 1, 3, 4 and 5. It was shit and I still feel bad about it.
You don't feel good about losing the plot and you certainly don't need some cocky (and perhaps slightly jealous) young fella rubbing it in.
Those selections look good
Jamie
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Martin
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Posted: 19 July 2004, 12:49 AM
Fresh off the plane from europe, so my head aint working properly. But here's some thoughts:
Pity bout the map printing, at least it was fair for everyone which is all that we can ask. The maps for JWOC qual and final had very heavy printing also, with each shade of green being two shades too dark.
family stuff:
Andrew is 1st year intermediate
Frances is having an MRI scan this week, she's finding the injury frustrating and wants to get back running.
These are my picks:
Senior Boys
Daniel Stott
Sam Mcnally
+2 of Robert, Richard, Rikki, Duncan
Senior Girls
Amber Morrison
Frances Peat
Lizzie Ingham
Rita Holmes
Junior Boys
Thomas Reynolds
Andrew Peat
Simon Jager
Ciaran Murphy
Junior Girls
Georgia Whitla
Nicola Peat
Kate Morrison
Sarah Gilkenson
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Dave Mcc
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Posted: 19 July 2004, 5:54 AM
Welcome back Martin. We need to catch up bro and write that stuff up. I think that in many ways most of you are right. Maybe I am being unfair to the others in the race who had to deal with rain and wind and crap conditions. You have the fields spot on Martin. Senior Boys I think should be Daniel, Sam, Robert and Richard. An MRI scan sounds intense. I know how she feels wanting to run again but hopefully it works out well. Tell her good luck
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Richard G
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Posted: 19 July 2004, 2:28 PM
i would just like to say yes i did have a shocking first control, which was aproximatly a 5-10 min error. yes i was incredably pist of at this, but come on guys, have any of you actually seen me throw a race before? I did not know then, and still dont know now why i was ill. it may have been the anti biotics i was on, i may have been dehydrated, hell it may have even be nerves all i know is that i was ill. plain and simple, i made the forest slightly more colourful and there is not that much more to be said. you can call me a liar in as many ways as you want but that will not change any facts. you have only my word that i was sick, if that is not enough then nothing will change your mind.
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Michael
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Posted: 20 July 2004, 1:31 AM
I think Simon shoulda run that time in South Australia. Yeah right.
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