ethics
 Jamie
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Posted: 21 May 2003, 1:39 AM
(a not quite so hypothetical question)
What should one do if one is running for their country in an elite short race, one is the second starter on the day and the third starter is Carsten Jorgensen 2 minutes back?
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jeffg
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Posted: 21 May 2003, 2:18 AM
Don't let him catch you.
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fancy_michael
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Posted: 21 May 2003, 4:59 AM
Yeah... I agree. It sounds to me like you're resigned to the fact that he's going to catch you. If you're representing NZ you should have more confidence in your Oing ability. If he does catch you however... you'd be silly to let him get away! 
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James
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Posted: 21 May 2003, 2:56 PM
Jamie,
dont you have Carsten up your arse on both races???
Hope you've been doing lots of speed work!
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Alistair
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Posted: 22 May 2003, 1:59 PM
Jamie> You have maybe 4 altenatives:
1. Don't start etc...
2. Ignore him and run your own race - probably unlikely.
3. Follow him and get a well deserved reputation as a follower - you will become a member of that esteemed club that includes such names as John Robinson (WOC 78 - 26th place following Egil Johansson - who won - like glue for 90% of the course - I've seen the splits) and Tom Qualye (WOC 97 - 14th place). Getting out of this club is much harder than you'd imagine and I wouldn't recommend joining it.
4. Assuming you are fast enough to stay with Carsten you have to do the following: You have to try and get ahead of him occasionally. Show some initiative. If you try to get ahead 25% of the time and actually manage it 10% Carsten will not come back saying you were hanging the whole way. It could be as simple as trying to punch first. Taking the lead on a track leg or simple leg. The worst that could happen is you make a mistake and if you do then it's quite likely you willl still be in contact with Carsten and if not - so what. And if you are not fast enough then let him go - if he makes a mistake you could catch him again (I did this once to Jörgen Mårtenssón in a WC who I re-caught about 4-5 times - he was so pissed at the mistakes he kept making).
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mark
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Posted: 23 May 2003, 3:13 AM
bullshit
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Alistair
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Posted: 23 May 2003, 11:20 AM
Thank you for that constructive contribution Mark.
Isn't it cheating to follow someone continuously and deliberately?
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fancy_michael
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Posted: 23 May 2003, 3:02 PM
No it's not cheating.
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Jamie
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Posted: 26 May 2003, 10:38 AM
ok, just to make sure I don't join this club (although I think you actually have to get a good result as the result of your unethical behaviour to be an acclaimed member.
Pewsey Vale, I first saw Carsten on a dog leg from 8-9-10 (I was coming out of 8). I then led him in to number 11 which he clipped just in front of me.
no12, I followed Carsten he got the best split (great)
no 13, long easy leg, I follow Carsten , although knowing where I am and we catch Jim Russel.
no14, Carsten takes off down the hill, I contour, Carsten comes back up the hill we hit a track junction and go into the control together (exactly the same split time)
no 15 I follow Carsten he runs off the map, then he changes angle and runs to the control (30 second mistake)
no 16 I lose Carsten he runs too fast (I never see Carsten again and proceed to make about a minute of annoying errors over the last five controls).
Gumeracha
no1, Carsten catches me up as I go to low on a slightly dodgy control (Rob J and Tania both lost siignificant time here to.
no2, I follow Carsten, but read the circle and get there before him, fastest split for me! yeah!
no3, I go straight slowly Carsten does a banana run but still gets there before me
no4, I follow Carsten we go fast, fastest split again! yeah!
no 5, 3km leg, I go left, Carsten goes right, I never see him again (of course)
so there I'm not a cheat, although it sure would have been tempting to follow him in the classic if I was fit enough, thats how 3/4 of the field behaved.
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HeadHoncho
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Posted: 27 May 2003, 10:42 PM
Jamie,
You seem overly-concerned by this ethical question and your rapid response upon returning to NZ suggests it does cause you to lie awake at night.
Your explanation sans weekend is not needed as anyone who is interested and can read splits can deduce what happened. Personally, given Carsten took 10 controls (out of the 19) to catch you, I think if you had stayed with him for the rest of the course you wouldn't have picked up the Quail award for 2003.
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Neil K
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Posted: 28 May 2003, 4:33 AM
What comes first; the Quail or the eggmo?
Edited by - Neil K on 28/05/2003 12:34:36
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Jamie
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Posted: 29 May 2003, 1:07 PM
Rob, anyone known for years after the fact as the "DNF King" does not want another title!
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