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course fairness

Show Profile  ecurb Posted: 19 May 2003, 3:02 AM  
One thing that has intrigued me about the Nationals is that I haven't seen any comments so far on the fairness issue. One of the priciples of course planning is fairness and everyone grumbles about doglegs on red courses as they promote unfairness.

However at the Nationals classic event there were numerous legs run in completely different directions on different courses. For example 11 - 12 on my course (course 4) was 9 to 8 on course 6, 17 to 18 on mine was 5 to 4 on course 6. This happened on many other courses as well. Also on my course many legs exited controls in the direction that other courses approached the control.

While not 'doglegs' as such they still promote unfairness in exactly the same way because you can get an advantage as you approach your control and someone is exiting it towards you.

This happened to a lesser extent in the Short event and I believe it happened on some of the Anzac days as well.

What has happened to the quality of the course planning that allows this and more importantly what has happened to the quality of the controllers that allow it to happen?

It crossed my mind that it could be because there weren't enough control stands because of the e card system but if that is the case then I think its very sad that fairness is compromiised for the sake of technology.



Show Profile  Michael Posted: 19 May 2003, 4:18 AM  
I agree that courses using controls in different directions is a "virtual dogleg", another term for it could be the "scissor effect".

I hope you send your comment to the Technical Committee. There are always niggles big or small after a major event and these guys and girl have the job of composing a constructive report on each one.

Show Profile  Greg Posted: 19 May 2003, 10:47 AM  
Is an area that needs to be blown up to a scale of 1:5000 fair?? taking into account that Elites (at least) should really be running on a scale of 1:15000 for classic races.

Show Profile  fraser Posted: 19 May 2003, 3:05 PM  
quote:
This happened to a lesser extent in the Short event...


As the setter of the Short event I would like to state that you are totally wrong if you think any such legs existed. In the future do your research before you make such baseless claims.

quote:
While not 'doglegs' as such they still promote unfairness in exactly the same way because you can get an advantage as you approach your control and someone is exiting it towards you.


Wrong again. This type of leg is in fact technically called a dogleg. There are actually two types of doglegs and this is the second and probably lesser known type.

quote:
...I haven't seen any comments so far on the fairness issue..


Probably because there are many more important issues that people actually care about.

From an NZOF Technical Committee report 2001: "NZ fields are so small, that competition in 5-year age classes is often affected by who turns up, and the frequent tendency of strong orienteers to run up one or more classes. We feel this introduces chance factors greater than all the doglegs we pay so much attention to , and greater than the undoubted effect of 10 years of aging."

Show Profile  ecurb Posted: 20 May 2003, 3:16 AM  
Fraser, apologies if this didn't happen in the short event. I was only going on memory which may be getting a bit decripid.

However I take issue with you saying

quote:
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...I haven't seen any comments so far on the fairness issue..
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Probably because there are many more important issues that people actually care about.
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Do you really believe that fairness isn't important and that people don't care about it.

Since my earlier comment I have seen the same problem about exiting controls in the same direction as runners on other courses enter the control. This occured at the Otago Champs last Saturday.

This is obviously a national problem!

BTW Fraser talking about doglegs look at Course 6 control 1. Just minor but still a dogleg :-)




Show Profile  fraser Posted: 20 May 2003, 4:25 AM  
I was referring to the fairness issue in relatioin to doglegs not fairness as a whole.

While you could argue that this control is a dogleg (but definitely not the type that you were referring to in your original post), I think you really are fishing a bit and there are far more important issues that could be discussed.

Show Profile  Jamie Posted: 20 May 2003, 6:35 AM  
Interesting to see in the technical committee quote that the prospect of runners running up or down a grade was considered a greater factor in creating an unfair chance of winning than dog-legs, of course I couldn't agree more, see previous thread.

I think you're pushing things when you use Otago Champs as an example, there were only about sixty people there. As for Nationals, a good orienteer, one capable of winning, should know where they are anyway, and indeed there is more chance of been put off by someone else than been assisted by them.

Like Fraser I don't think its a big issue, although of course it should not be encouraged.



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