 MikeB
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 3:52 AM
Hey Matt. I really like the idea of the juniors having the elites around and I'm sure you guys are more than happy to hand down any advice that will help them improve.
I'm not sure about the grades though as I think they may be set by the New Zealand Secondary School Council(NZSSC.
I don't really have an issue with that and I think it works ok. The numbers throughout the country have grown so much we probably need them. A few years they could have been amalgamated, but not now.
From those three zones regional I mentioned, I'm sure we could easily produce senior and junior teams based on the same age selection policy we have at the moment. Seniors from 2nd year Intermediates and Seniors. with the juniors being selcted from 1st year Intermediates and juniors. That gives a good mix of experience and less experience at this higher level. The less experienced gain the experience by being around there peers and having this higher level of competition.
For me bring it on and the sooner the better.
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valerie
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 5:37 AM
I know I am going to be accused of living in the past, but for the sake of people who havnt been around for the last 17 years I will just inform you that 17 years ago a big team of NZers with some 'elites' went over to Aussie for their champs and school competition and to cut a long story short 'their' behaviour was not at all good and we were not invited back and certain people in NZ Orienteering(Ray Pratt) worked bloody hard to get us back their again, but it was a wait of seven or so years....if this goes ahead it must be well staffed with adults and certain rules adhered to. Please.
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MikeB
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 5:55 AM
Val I would whole heartedly agree that there would have to be several parents managing a team and strict rules around behaviour, with penalties like exclusion from future teams for serious breaches of team rules and possibly being sent home at their or their parents expense.
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Michael
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 10:57 AM
Mike its several parents managing the 'elites' that may be required, heh heh.
But you're on to a good concept of using the superseries zones as "states" in the Australian sense. So we can explore sending three teams to the Aussie Schools. We can think about a NZ zonal competition that we invite Australian state teams to. We need to think about the post-school dropoff too and maybe the top schoolies need to elect between schools competition and the junior superseries.
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 12:01 PM
In response to a point raised by Hugh, there are currently two competitions the NZ schools team competes in - the annual challenge against the various state teams, and the (currently) biennial "test" against the Australian national school team generally held in conjunction with Oceania champs. If NZ was to start sending regional teams to the former, I assume the national team would still exist for the latter, so yes Ed, Callum and... sorry can't be bothered scrolling back and I've forgotten the 3rd name... would still have the occasional opportunity to be in the same team...
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 12:17 PM
However while I'm totally in favour of what's been suggested here, I do love a bit of devil's advocacy... as the topic under discussion is how to maximise retention of talented or enthusiastic junior orienteers, can anyone list the participants of those original Southern Cross Challenge teams and associated tours, and let's see how many of them remained continuously involved and active in the sport since.
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hughff
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 12:37 PM
I guess my problem is that I don't think representing the "lower half of the North Island" is any incentive for anyone really. At present 16 school age athletes make the NZ team in any year. When it's 48 school age athletes and they're only making regional teams, well so what?
I think it would be discouraging to those who could challenge for national honours rather than encouraging for those who cannot.
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MikeB
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 2:02 PM
Onemanfanclub you've hit the nail on the head it's about maximising the retention of talented orienteers who will progress into our elite ranks and strengthen the top level of the sport.
Hugh I think you are totally underestimating how competitive orienteering in our junior ranks has become throughout the country. Kids up here would love to have a crack at making a regional team to go to Aussie. Many of them wouldn't be aware that a NZ Schools team even exists. I would be very surprised if juniors in the lower half of the North island wouldn't give their eye teeth to be slected in a regional team to go.
I don't agree that it would be discouraging for those aspiring for National honours and encouraging those that can't because I think there is very little between both camps now.
The number of top juniors in clubs at this moment speaks for itself particularly in the Auckland region. How many from the Hawkes Bay made the schools team this year, four, and how many would have been quite capable of making it but didn't get selected probably another four at least. Then throw in the talent in Wellington.
Three regional teams individually, could be just as strong as one National team and that shows the real depth we have at the moment, and if it continues, what we will have in the future.
Four seniors and four juniors, male and female from throughout NZ selected for a Schools teamis a drop in the ocean in comparison to the just as good ones who miss out.
We live in different orienteering times than we did a couple of years ago. Let's get our heads out of the sand and acknowledge the huge progress we're making not stick our heads down deeper. I don't want to see us to let this opportunity slip away.
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hughff
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 2:25 PM
Mike, we'll agree to disagree. I reiterate my point - I don't see us encouraging orienteers by lowering standards to accommodate more people; we should be finding new ventures instead.
However, I take exception to the comment that I am "totally underestimating how competitive orienteering in our junior ranks has become throughout the country." Just so you know, I am a school teacher and my involvement in orienteering is almost exclusive tagging along with juniors. I'm far more familiar with the schools grade runners than the elites.
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KM
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 3:36 PM
How about we have 3 regional schools teams each year that go to an Oceania regional schools comp incorporated into the Oceanias/aussie champs each year, the Aussies can choose whether to make that their schools champs at the same time if they want. If not they can run them at a differnet date. Then have a nz schools team of 4-6 in each grade selected each year to go to either world schools if possible or if that's too expensive etc just do another Aussie trip to Xmas 4days or something? Otherwise those top juniors can compete together in the NZ M16 teams etc at Oceanias
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mcroxford
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 11:15 PM
Can I suggest that at our National Champs as well as the club based teams then we allow for 2 JWOC teams and 3 school-aged teams based on region. This will give us all a good challenge to race against these youngsters. Also gives them the chance to race together.
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mcroxford
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 11:21 PM
Sorry. Meant to say "in the relay"
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valerie
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Posted: 26 February 2013, 2:43 AM
Why is it when we get something that works we have got to change it?
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rob.g
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Posted: 26 February 2013, 5:19 AM
The way I see it, Mike's proposal is to improve what works, and involve a lot more kids. I'm right behind the idea.
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MikeB
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Posted: 26 February 2013, 5:38 AM
Val what we have does work and has worked wonderfully well for the past 8 or so years. But now is the time to improve on what's worked for the betterment of not only the sport but for all the juniors we now have in the system. How do you think successful companies survive, they grow with the times.
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