 Jane H
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Posted: 15 February 2013, 2:49 AM
It was interesting to hear something during a Campbell Live interview last night - the Evers-Swindell twins said that neither have been back in a boat since they won Gold and don't miss it... they both just quit it and moved on to other things. Now to keep fit they are giving a half marathon a go..... As young Mums they also want the social sport post Uni and post Olympics.
Also, I have been pleased to see some long-lost members (ie now at uni) turning up to our Summer Series events the last few weeks - Just coming to enjoy the run, even running in bare feet! Good to have them join us, even if briefly.
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Jamie
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Posted: 16 February 2013, 3:46 AM
That is quite an interesting comparison with the Evers Swindell twins.
I can't imagine ever simply not going orienteering and most of NZ's "high performance" scene are the same. I can only think of a few people that kept orienteering until they were 23 that have disappeared completely.
Is it possible to be a true high performance athlete and have a sport as a balanced and sustainable part of your life?
What incentives do we need to provide, promote, brand, mythologise, to have high performance athletes?
Or should we be merely encouraging wellness and orienteering excellence amongst a wider pool as possible?
Is it arguable that the pinnacle of an NZOF performance (forget about the "high") programme should be a four week tour of the European multi-days rather than WOC/JWOC?
Jamie
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nh
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Posted: 18 February 2013, 6:44 PM
Perhaps one of the reasons is that clubs have a large focus on increasing membership and appealing to newcomers. Many maps and events are in close to town locations that are easy to access and set beginner courses on. Something that we may be lacking is more high quality maps in great terrains that aren't necessarily so close to town. Clubs could hold challenging races that don't have so much focus on beginners, and instead focus on better orienteering for people with more experience. After a while it could be that the close to home orienteering doesn't have so much appeal to these people that we are loosing. There's only so many times you can run at Whitby/Aotea before it starts to get a bit repetitive.
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pete s
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Posted: 18 February 2013, 11:00 PM
Great comments and some really interesting perspectives. There's a chance to build these thoughts into the NZOF strategic plan, so really encourage the owners of these posts to take a wee bit of time to read it and input to it - its all about the future of the sport, which is exactly what you guys are talking about.
Go to the NZOF website and have a look - make your say and views count :-)
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Jane H
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Posted: 18 February 2013, 11:38 PM
Yes Pete, I'll get onto it but in the meantime I'll say here that I would be really excited if Jamie's idea of a European tour for 18 - 25 year olds was seriouly looked into further. The trip wouldn't have to be every year. Maybe every 3rd year.
Every parent of O-teenagers knows the buzz going around the kids about trying to get into the JWOC team going to Norway in 2015 ... I am already worried about all those that aren't going to make the team - do you know how many that is? Its more than ever before. Do we want to risk them all dropping out before they are 20?.
Plan something now and I will stop passionately stirring about getting more teams to the World's Schools Orienteering Champs. Same objective really. Trying to add another international dimension for more kids, not the top few.
And please don't think this could be done at club level - it needs some NZOF grunt behind it to make Universities or employers happier to give the time off to young people.
I vote we make this happen. I hear other countries take 100 young ones to an area the JWOC is going to be held TWO years ahead of the competition - give everyone a heads up on the terrain. Then they select the team after that. Can't see that being built into our strategic plan (yet) but maybe a coachfull of teenagers every 3 years could be a starter.
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theoman
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Posted: 19 February 2013, 1:31 AM
Love the idea Jane, and is a similar model that North West is adopting this year with a club trip to Australia. We are focusing on building that international experience through a club avenue, opposed to a national team which due to the ever increasing number of top junior orienteers is becoming more difficult to make.
I just want to add, that North West is an amazing club. The personnel and attitude is simply awesome! Ideas are encouraged and we want to grow and succeed as a club!
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SteveO
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Posted: 19 February 2013, 11:25 PM
An excellent idea. Should we be telling our juniors to start saving now for a trip in 2015? JWOC in Norway is combined with Sorlandsgallopen that year and is only a week or so before O-Ringen. A trip built around those two events would have definite appeal and be beneficial to many of them - not to mention the boost to our JWOC team to have 20 or 30 of their mates there to cheer them on.
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MikeB
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Posted: 22 February 2013, 3:05 PM
This would have to be my pet subject, our up and coming juniors, and there seems to be some good ideas being thrown around.
My belief and I think that goes for most others, is that the young people we are beginning to engage into the sport are the future of it and we must do our very best to keep as many involved as we possibly can.
I can only speak from what I see happening in the Auckland orienteering scene. There is a wonderful culture and passion within in our current younger elites up here at the moment where training, racing and spending social time together is the name of the game. This is beginning to pull some of our 16-18 yr olds under the same umbrella.
Just this weekend about 10 of them (a mixture of elites and junior elites)of have headed down to race in the round taupo relay. What a wonderful atmosphere to engender togetherness in sport for the younger juniors and to rub shoulders with those they look up too.
However there is an even bigger number slightly below this that I know we need to encourage in whatever way can, otherwise we will lose them to other sports.
This week we commenced our secondary school sprint series throughout Auckland . In the two zones I run we had close on 550 entries and from what I can ascerttain in the four zones up here we have had approx 800-900 competitors and that will continue for 6 weeks.
However I can't speak for how it is in other areas of the country. How are the other regions faring Hawkes Bay, Wellington, the South island? If we can hold on to say 10% of them imagine how that will swell our junior club ranks.
I believe we now need to rethink the way we select a NZ Schools team. In the Southern Cross Challenge we have had a huge advantage over the Aussies in that we select a NZ team ( basically the very best we have) but they only have state teams and for me that is unfair.
With the number of top class juniors that are now competing we should be in a position to send a number of regional teams say 3. One from Auckland, one from Hawkes Bay/Wellington and one from the South island if the Aussies would accept that. That then puts us on the same footing as them. That then opens the competition for places in these regional team to many more aspiring juniors. It would also really spice up the competition for places in the teams and imagine the vibe going around trying to seek selection by competing as much as you can to become better than someone else.
In the past the NZ Schools team, if you were a good club junior, was almost a right of passsge. Now with the numbers that are coming through this is no longer the case.
Imagine being able to expose nearly 50 of our best juniors to that sort of experience. At the moment it is only the best chosen few who make it and if you're not quite as good as they are, you quickly lose interest, because you can't see a future for yourself at the top junior level.
I for one would be really happy to put my name forward as a team manager/coach of a regional team selected on that basis. At present we have the Regional Schools Challenge which is held at Queen's Birthday Weekend in whatever part of the country it's held in. this brings together well over 100 of our juniors in the North island. This is only the first part of the equation but having made that event for your region you then want to aspire to something a bit bigger. So a smaller more select regional team to go to Australia for the Southern Cross Challenge should be the next. Selection into the D Squad is next then after that JWOC becomes the next major event on the radar.
At present with JWOC we send 6 males and 6 females but in the school team we only send 4 seniors boys and 4 senior girls. We need more in Australia gaining that valuable overseas experience preparing for the trials and tribulations that racing at the highest junior level JWOC brings.
I have seen the difference it has made to both my kids just being in this top level environment and I would love to see more, rather than a selected few gain, that same experience.
We need to grasp the opportunity we currently have and really run with it, to set the sport up on a really solid foundation that I'm sure these kids will give us.
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Michael
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Posted: 22 February 2013, 3:50 PM
Well said Mike, couldn't have put it better myself;-)
You've identified the fact that the two islands are not well balanced, and neither are the four NZOF regions. The Superseries recognised this 10 years ago with its division into three. By the way what's happening with the SS? Google's top hit gives me 2008.
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valerie
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Posted: 23 February 2013, 1:46 PM
Admirable but.....don't forget, we are in Aussie at the Australian Schools invitation.
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MikeB
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Posted: 23 February 2013, 3:21 PM
Val I understand that but maybe we should be making noises to the Aussies and see how they would view the idea. I don't believe we should be trying to put obstacles in the way of something like this.
They may also see themselves more of a chance of actually winning the trophy for the first time in as many years as I can remember with only regional teams to cope with rather than one loaded Kiwi team.
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hughff
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Posted: 24 February 2013, 12:47 AM
Stacked? Questionable...
NSW popn = 7.2M
Vic popn = 5.6M
Qnl popn = 4.5M
NZ popn = 4.4M
WA popn = 2.4M
SA popn = 1.6M
Tas popn = 0.5M
ACT popn = 0.4M
I think NZ marries up fairly well on that list. Certainly it's a chance for more of our juniors but it's not an equity issue and if suddenly the NZ regions start winning multiple podium places, our convict cousins are going to be less hospitable.
Besides, I like the idea of Ed, Callum, Alice et al being on the same team now and then. They shouldn't have to wait until JWOC to be team mates.
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MikeB
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Posted: 24 February 2013, 3:59 AM
But this is not only about the Ed's, Callum's and Alice's et al of this world it's about those sitting right below them who we will possibly lose if we can't create something for them to aspire too. We need to create a competitve and social environment that will make them want to stay in the sport. This is not not only about going to Aussie it's also about having more regional type of events like the elites have in the super series.
If we could fill the podium in Australia it may make the Aussies wonder what we're doing right and what they are doing wrong. I still think it's worth the approach.
If you have fifty of them away at an event they all team up anyway. That's the nature of our young people these days especially with facebook etc.
It would also be great to have a reciprocal arrangement with Australia for them to be able to bring their state schools here every now and again as well. Ever heard of CER.
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darren
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Posted: 24 February 2013, 1:35 PM
Why not ask the IOF to sanction an annual Oceania Secondary Schools champs. This could alternate each year between NZ and Aust and probably just be linked to each countries nationals so effectively just adding participant numbers. Open to all Oceania schools. It could even be club based as all participants would need to belong to their local club and therefore their national federation.
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theoman
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Posted: 25 February 2013, 1:37 AM
I really like the direction you are heading Mike. Australia and NZ must work together if we are going to grow Orienteering in either country. The international experience creates memorable trips which ultimately hooks you on orienteering for life.
Currently, like you said Mike, we are sending our best teams over to Australia only to smash the Australian state teams. For competitions like EYOC, European Youth Champs, JWOC e.t.c each country sends 6 runners per age group. Why do we need to restrict how many runners we send to Australia to only 4 per age group? The top kids will still take the victories in their respective classes and the relays will be even more competitive with more teams from both countries.
The school level base is growing rapidly, we need now focus on the next level to convert those part time school orienteers to active competitive club orienteers.
Another note is why do we have Junior, Intermediate and Senior grades at school level? I understand for events like the AKSS sprint series it is necessary to have more grades to accommodate the huge numbers but for an event like the National Secondary Schools why not just have Junior and Senior grades like that of the Australian competitions. By doing so we create more competitive grades and then when it comes to selecting a NZ team to go to Australia we could simply invite the top 10 from each grade, potentially inviting 40 kiwi kids to go to Australia.
Imagine a 40 kid trip to Australia! The experience and enjoyment gained from such a trip would surely stimulate massive growth in kids at club level orienteering. Chuck in a few elite orienteers with those kids and then we should really see some massive gains. I learned so much from James/Neil e.t.c when I was a junior. It is this sort of communication between the elites and the juniors that really sparks a life passion (well for me anyway), and a trip to Australia like this would provide a perfect opportunity to communicate the knowledge and experience of the elites in a racing environment (not just a training environment like at the National Junior Training Camp).
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