 mcroxford
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Posted: 14 November 2011, 9:24 AM
Hi All,
NOC are having a slight issue with our local Search and Rescue branch over their request for maps and then non-payment for them as they didn't use them on the day. One staffer has been lovely while the other who holds the purse strings has used emotive language like "you'll need us one day" and the following:
"My first SAR job in 1981 involved 3 orienteers in the Rimutakas . All 3 died of hypothermia , after a southerly front came thru . All were fit young guys in their early 20s .However they were dressed inappropriately for the conditions and paid for that with their lives."
It doesn't help that he is right that we will probably need them one day and that they are police. Can someone please verify the above and apologies if it is true and I stir up old memories.
Cheers, Michael. Email nelson.orienteering (at) gmail.com
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Taupoite
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Posted: 14 November 2011, 9:54 AM
I remember those deaths. They were actually cross-country runners but other than that, the details are correct. it was believed that one stopped to do something about a shoe, and they then all dropped pretty quick from the chill. It was in the days before polyprop and from memory, they had cotton singlets and nylon shorts on.
Gerry should know that.
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mcroxford
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Posted: 14 November 2011, 10:00 AM
Was it that obvious that it was from Gerry?
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Taupoite
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Posted: 14 November 2011, 12:40 PM
It was when I used to flat with him.
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Taupoite
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Posted: 14 November 2011, 12:42 PM
I used to flat with him so it was.
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 14 November 2011, 1:23 PM
If I recall correctly that was "the Tramper's marathon", or these guys were running the course beforehand while in training for it. Used to be an annual event long before trail runs and the like were ever The Big Thing. If this sad incident was 1981 then the event must have lasted for a few years afterwards - I vaguely remember hearing about the race in the late 80's. But the only thing it ever had to do with orienteering is that I suspect one or two Wellington based orienteers longer in the tooth than I am may well have competed.
I think I've heard of ONE orienteering incident that resulted in a full SAR situation (Northland? 80's?) - anyone know of any others? - and I guess there'd be a few extractions of injured people that would count as SAR operations.
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 14 November 2011, 1:27 PM
It would be a huge shame if the relationship between your club and local SAR, with fairly obvious benefits for BOTH parties, was strained by a personality issue, so best of luck working through this Michael.
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Svend
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Posted: 15 November 2011, 12:43 AM
http://wlsar.org.nz/2010/12/21/the-three-harriers/
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Bryan
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Posted: 15 November 2011, 12:48 AM
I remember the news at the time - they were runners (nothing to do with Orienteering) who got caught out in the hills of Wainuiomata and I think they were always close to houses/roads but that there
was fight between them and rescue. I was more of a cross-country/harrier myself at the time and I remember being shocked
that fit runners died so close to home and were running in areas
that I had run in.
I kept on thinking how I would handle similar situations. I did run in worse conditions (bitterly cold, wet and windy) in the Tararuas and got into a similar situation but I did the right thing and decided not to carry on but turn back as I didn't know the track and didn't know how far it was to go. As soon as you turn back, you know exactly how far it is to get back and it's easier to keep your strength and hopes up. My partner wanted to go off track and into the bush but I said to him we would still be in there two weeks later
and that there could be cliffs and waterfalls.
I would point out politely to the stroppy SAR guy that they were definitely not orienteers and that:
- it's expensive to create maps and costs have to be recovered so
that future maps can be made to the benefit of everyone
- if there was a cost involved (did you print new maps for them?) then if you have the evidence of the initial request for maps and your agreement to supply them at an agreed price) that they are obliged to pay for them. However if you were giving them old maps and there was no cost to your club apart from someone's time, then I wouldn't charge them.
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mcroxford
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Posted: 15 November 2011, 12:48 PM
Thanks All. I wrote a nice letter similar to what Bryan suggested. I have tried very hard to keep personalities out of it but that's almost impossible sometimes. I'll go on a charm offensive with them soon enough to ensure relationships are maintained...
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Marquita G
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Posted: 15 November 2011, 1:07 PM
Those 3 runners died just above our house, probably only 1km from safety. From memory, they had got lost so wouldn't have known how close they were, although it was pretty steep terrain to get down even though they were on firebreaks. They only had very light running singlets/shorts on, completely inadequate in a good Wellington southerly.
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The Map Guy
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Posted: 16 November 2011, 3:03 AM
I can't see why there should be an issue over non payment for maps. It is quite simple that if a request is made by the local LandSAR group for maps and the club have to print them specially then the recipient pays the bill. For operational purposes, the Police ultimately pick up the tab.
One way of getting around payment for printing costs is to supply a PDF file and get them (SAR/Police)to pay for the printing. Most big stations have the ability to print them within their own building. The map should be suitably annotated with text like "For SAR use only".
As to whether a Club should charge a royalty for the use of the map is another issue. I know orienteering maps have been used by the Police both in NZ and Australia. Selwyn Palmer can no doubt elaborate on how the old Woodhill maps have been use to help solve homicides.
O maps have also have been used to supply the location of marijuana plants (prior to GPS useage). The 1983 Tongariro National Park Mountain Marathon event map was used to show where a human skeleton was located after it had been discovered by a competitor.
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mcroxford
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Posted: 16 November 2011, 10:07 PM
After last night's club meeting. NOC now has a map and equipment policy. Maps are able to be printed and mailed for $5 each or a pdf with a similar disclaimer at $50 to not for profit groups only. Commercial groups will be considered on a case by case basis. Old stands and flags with clipper only and control cards can be hired for a $20 minimum plus $1 per control over 20 controls. Anything else is for approval by the committee.
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