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Where have all the orienteers gone!?

pete s Posted: 24 May 2010, 8:54 AM   I'd like to know what happened to my post that Robbie responded to earlier today - did you delete it Simon??!!   Paul I Posted: 24 May 2010, 9:25 AM   it could be worse honcho, imagine having to fill the void with watching shortland st if you were banned from maptalk. anyway where are the women on this forum, we all know they make the final decision   Paul I Posted: 24 May 2010, 9:32 AM   ...i digress michael, back to the topic. if the customer is always right and some of them want traditional events, but more and more events are new age, how does that work?   Jamie Posted: 24 May 2010, 11:56 AM   I'm bored shitless by events on crappy maps, in town, whether you call them rogaining, orienteering or whatever. I orienteer 4-5 times a year at the best events on the calender. These events are where there is firstly a new challenge - an interesting map, preferably in an interesting place, and secondly some competition. I don't think I am alone in my approach, and I believe that Nationals showed that. If you want your members that have been orienteering for 10 years plus to keep coming back, then you have to keep the spark going somehow. Some people think they can replace these members with people they attract through budget street events...I suggest this is a fallacy. I am all for, all sorts of navigation sports, I think my record and contribution to rogaining, adventure racing and MTBO proves this. But someone up there (and ladies and gentleman that is now us) needs to make sure good old fashioned hard orienteering continues to happen in real terrain.   rob.g Posted: 24 May 2010, 12:23 PM   Bring on Queens birtday weekend.   Michael Posted: 24 May 2010, 1:02 PM   Funny how we all manage to see our own hobby-horses as the answer, no matter what the topic is:-)) Paul, tomorrow I'll go and ask Tony for a set of $20 tyres..   Jymbo Posted: 25 May 2010, 5:08 AM   It's not the first time a post has gone missing, it has happened to me before. How can it happen   valerie Posted: 25 May 2010, 5:44 AM   Praps Paul, 'women' are intimidated by some of the harsh, opinionated men on this forum or maybe those women just have more sense than the couple of us that do postings....i suspect a bit of both? Me...Im not intimidated by anyone....has something to do with the 4'10" I think!!   Paul I Posted: 25 May 2010, 1:27 PM   Val, i wouldn't need to tell someone who's had more than her fair share of boys in her home that it's just the testosterone talking, that's why it would be great to have more females posting stuff, even if they're 4'10". Gosh thats about the height of my mother-in-law and she's definately pretty intimidating so maybe we have to draw the line at 5'.   Paul I Posted: 25 May 2010, 1:41 PM   Michael, how did you get on with the $20 tyres? I wouldn't be surprised if he told you to rack off. I can't see the analogy, i can't see running around tough rocky scandinavian terrain changing in a hurry in europe, which is what many of us aspire to or dream about every night. That no dolbt also includes quite a number of masters.   Michael Posted: 26 May 2010, 3:14 AM   Haha Paul. Analogies always have their limits don't they. But the postings here suggest a way forward. Jamie has run some brilliant events, but has said he's not a mapper. You are a brilliant mapper. With all these people dreaming about tough scandinavian terrain every night, and a list elsewhere on this website listing possible sites, why don't you get together and put on a series of good old-fashioned hard orienteering in real terrain?   Paul I Posted: 26 May 2010, 4:00 AM   with just a hint of clever sarcasm and a few stretches of the imagination i suspect. I'm not trying to dis other peoples efforts for alternative events close to home, but just sticking up for the true blue classic form which we never want to lose sight of.   HeadHoncho Posted: 27 May 2010, 7:33 AM   Its taken me a few days to get back on the chair after falling off laughing at Jamies mathematical skills. Sprint the Bay, JWOC trial, NZ Rogaine, National O Champs, City Safari and youre entered for QB ... and the year isnt even half gone. But to be fair, he (and Paul) makes a good point about keeping the spark going for the traditionalists. In our rush to put on time-easy events that cater for a larger audience, it would be easy to forget we have a core base who have needs to. Stop and think who, by and large, provides the volunteer effort for our sport? Then consider if their needs arent met, where will that effort go? Maybe Im the only one who sees a touch of irony in a club putting on a series of rogaines so a few of their members can go and satisfy their needs of traditional orienteering at international level. NW are to be congratulated for (a) putting on some events that attract wider participation (b) using it to fundraise for a worthy cause, BUT too much emphasis on such activity at the expense of traditional events could buy problems down the track. Perhaps clubs who are struggling with volunteer resources need to consider if their activities are alienating their core membership? I suggest you need to exercise care in taking corporate marketing messages and applying them in the context of volunteer-organised sport. Market to the masses, the consumer is always right is fine if youre selling a product but, despite the increasing commercialisation of sport, I dont regard sport, and certainly a volunteer-based, financially-strapped, limited-appeal sport such as orienteering, as a product. Historically Volunteer Sports Clubs have existed for the members, by the members (note to Simon: not to make money)  a group of individuals linked by a common interest and utilising their collective effort to benefit themselves. The increasing pressure on sport to transform itself into a deliverer of service to a wider audience is not without risk  that being turning participants into consumers and then having to satisfy consumer demand with the use of volunteer labour already struggling with time constraints imposed externally (societal). If the pool of volunteer labour is increasing, maybe, but I have yet to see evidence of that in orienteering, participation growth has not (yet) translated into club membership which is where volunteers are found. Thats my concern, growth consumes resources yet our resources are not increasing to support growth. I dont agree with Michael that the non-orienteering population is a most important group. Yes, they are a group to consider but I still believe VSCs exist first and foremost to benefit their members. If youre into marketing maxims, perhaps you need to consider this one: servicing an existing client is usually a lot easier than finding a new one. As an aside, I find it a little disingenuous to use the Hapua OY as evidence for an argument when a fortnight prior there was an OY with 144 participants (yes, it was a JWOC trial but according to the WOA website 90 people scored OY points that day). As with most things in life, there needs to be a balance. There is no easy answer to responding to the challenge of a growing sport which has resource issues so Im sorry Michael, it is rocket science. From where I sit, our sport is growing, our resources to support that growth are not (or at least not at the same rate). Catering to the masses by having time-easy events IF it is at the expense of a traditional base who form the core of your volunteer resource is IMO a risky strategy in such an environment, if you have the long-term interests of our sport at heart.   addison Posted: 28 May 2010, 11:42 PM   Nah didn't delete it Pete - you must have been on the wines that night :-)   rob.g Posted: 29 May 2010, 6:47 AM   No Simon, It's that damned Bundaberg. I've been trying to wean him off it but it hasn't worked.