 nick
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 1:01 AM
ditto addison
and ditto all those who've said "there are more important things to worry about". IF we had accumulated such a fund, who says we'd choose to spend the income on international competitons?
robbie, lets say your big idea had merit... why would you ruin your sales pitch by having a dig at the people who might run with it? "money man", maybe. "sales man", no.
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HeadHoncho
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 1:20 AM
With all due respect Robbie, paying off a mortgage is protecting an investment. It's unfortunate that you generalise and label today's youths as takers, not givers and I certainly don't think it's correct to use that as a reason why using fundraising as a means to kick-start a capital fund wouldn't work.
Fundraising tends to be for the here and now, and as you point out, the youths of yesterday certainly didn't use many years of a successful fundraising venture (the Forest Run) to initiate capital for the future. So in that respect, while you praise the Jessops et al for their hard fundraising work, where is the long-term "fruits" of their labour? You can't state "if they could do it, so could we".
Perhaps today's youths are no different - I'm surprised SJ didn't point out in a few weeks he (and others) are running a coaching weekend for their club as a post-JWOC fundraiser; an event at Katoa Po was run by a student going to Spain for the World Schools ... fundraising still happens.
To be honest Robbie, to expect people under the age of 30 to have well-developed altruistic and philanthropic tendencies is expecting a bit much. If anything, there are quite a few people a lot older who are in a better position to do something and perhaps the question should be asked of them?
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valerie
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 2:26 AM
Anyone wanting to know ANYTHING about Sausage Sizzles, Derek and I are happy to impart our knowledge!
Its not just about money and getting overseas....its about kids training their guts out and have to pay top dollar for Drs, Physios, Sports Psychologists, etc., whereas is you are a 'carded athelete' all of that is free and at your availability at any time. Prime Ministers Scholarships and the like are now even impossible to try and get. I think you have to be in the top ten in the world,to qualify? Like ive been heard to say before, if I could have my time again I wish Id steered them down the path of rowing, kyaking, triathalon, anything but O-ing! Too late now though. GO ROSS!!!
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 4:19 AM
I dunno Val, I think in all those sports you list, yes there are a few people who are getting supported way more than any orienteer ever will be, but with the probable exception of kayaking they've come through a huge base of people, buying their own equipment (anyone who thinks a compass and a pair of shoes is expensive should look at a few other sports!), funding their own training camps, funding their way to nationals, funding their way to trips overseas with clubs, school teams etc... maybe what they have got for being a "big" or "supported" sport(rowing for example)that we don't are much better coaching networks etc. So after we start earning the interest from Addison's drug money, Brent's winnings and Nick's carbon credits which all went into Robbie's investment fund, where should the windfall really go?
The point being, outside of our major team sports I don't think orienteers are actually alone out there
And you can bet a lot of the funding in a number of the other sports mentioned here works on a 4 year cycle and is focused on people/teams with good chances of being in that world's top 10(or less?) in years divisible by 4. Bad luck to any kayaker who shows form in the wrong part of the cycle
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Tane Cambridge
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 5:16 AM
Well I think the answer then is to become a carded athlete. Im sure the carded athletes in NZ have had to put just as much(or more?) of their own effort, time and money to get to that level. I think I heard somewhere that Sarah Ulmer had to put $30,000 of her own money into winning a gold medal at Athens. Thats not including all the money she put forward the 12+ years prior either. Its not impossible to do in orienteering and be from the southern hemisphere either... Marquita has done it; and if she was a NZer, Hanny could have become a carded athlete.
The reality is if your going to play amateur sport its going to cost you money... and it has been said 5 or 6 times in this thread, if you want it to happen you will make it happen.
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valerie
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 6:12 AM
Carded athletes = Olympic Sports.You can only be a carded athlete if you do an Olympic Sport, and according to the Danish coaches at JWOC 2007, Sweden has NO desire for Orienteering to become an Olympic Sport and wants it to stay as it is.
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Jenni
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 6:21 AM
And remember NZOF is supporting our representatives. eg Carsten spent a few hours last week organizing accommodation and other stuff for the training camp before WOC as part of his HP job. And lots of other stuff is organized for those who want it.
And yep when I was in Canterbury rep hockey teams we definitely had to pay for lots of stuff ourselves. I don't think it's at all fair to bag orienteering as being a bad choice sport. And I'm not sure it would be ever smart to choose a sport by anything other than how much you enjoy doing it.
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Bryan
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 6:37 AM
Here are some ideas of making money - many of which I did when I was in the squad or younger.
- going around neighbourhood asking for bottles. I remember doing this when I was about 7 or 8 - my brother and I ended up with over 100 dozen bottles in the back yard. I also remember my father taking
another poor boy around the back when he asked 'do you have any bottles' and saying 'There you are'. The look on his face was priceless both when he saw them and when my father said 'you can't have them'. For a young kid, the money we made was huge.
- going around the neighbourhood asking for sponsorship. Amazing how many people will give you money for a good cause but you have to be thick skinned.
- organising and selling raffle tickets.
- mapping
- putting on events
- too many forest fun runs taking too much time for not enough reward.
- corporate sponsorship both large and small - if you market and sell yourself well you should be able to get the cash.
- when I was a student and penniless, I worked at many jobs both summer and during semesters - working at freezing works, in a bottling factory, in a dairy factory, spraying 245-D weed killer,
picking up hay bales, strawberry picking, programming. I started working in the freezing works over summer when I was 15 and that was an eye-opener.
- when I started working fulltime, my own work sponsored me and gave me extra paid (up to 4 weeks) leave to compete for New Zealand
- small investment in a 'get-rich-quick' scheme - I got my money back
but not much more
- Rob Garden once used his gambling talents to try to get a large return for squad members but I was too chicken to try it (doing 2nd year statistics at University and knowing the odds has killed any inclination for me to gamble and it has always bored me)
- my own club has given money to me as a grant
- has anyone thought of asking for a grant from the Katie Fette's fund?
- taking out a loan
- using your credit card - Once I 'robbed Peter to pay Paul' and used my master card to pay my visa bill but you can only do this for a short time
- your parents - coming from a family of 11 there was not a lot of money to go around and you were expected to pay your own way. But their other support like food, clothing, free rent, washing (etc,
etc, ad infinitum) was priceless in so many ways.
In the 80's and 90's over the space of a few years, I paid about $30000 for travel and orienteering overseas. I was still paying it off years later, but I don't regret it - not one little bit - I can still remember my experiences vividly 25 years later.
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Dave
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 9:03 AM
You DO NOT have to be competing in an Olympic Sport to be carded...
Last i checked neither Motorcross or Shearing were at the Olympics...
You do how ever need to be a world beater in your sport.
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Dave
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 9:11 AM
Top 3 in the world will do it for you..
Which isn't that bad...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/olympic-games/news/article.cfm?c_id=502&objectid=10587156
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Marquita G
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 12:23 PM
I was carded last year as part of a Performance Enhancement Grant from SPARC. Very useful it was too.
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mick finn
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Posted: 11 August 2009, 2:41 PM
I always thought getting carded was getting trolleyed while wearing a cardigan. Consider me enlightened.
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addison
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Posted: 12 August 2009, 10:28 AM
So time for the most realistic idea to earn the most?
What about inviting Peter Snell over to NZ to come compete in some multi-day, where he can come get his orienteering fix. We get sponsorship to bring him over from Air NZ - and they will get their return (see below). It is all about a hand up not a hand out.
Bring him over, and run a corporate dinner and speaking function with SIR Peter Snell, New Zealands most famous Orienteer - whoops I mean runner.
Charge $300 per head. 10 people tables. 10 tables paid tables. Well thats $30k. Take away $10k for the dinner and venue costs, $20k profit. Set up the Peter Snell Orienteering Fund, put it in it and do what Robbie says. But could we maybe fill 20 tables? That would be $40-50k?? For the flights, give Air NZ a free table.
During the multi day do another one, where each club gets two tables. Get Peter to talk about Orienteering. Each club invites along its most important land owners. Man would that keep them happy?
Just need to have someone who used to be mates with Peter on board... ohh Robbie, didn't you run with him?
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robbie
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Posted: 12 August 2009, 12:59 PM
Simon. I thought this was a fizzer! That is the sort of idea I was hoping for.No Peter is not some one I used to know. We are still close friends after so many years and getting Peter to a dinner is easy.He is in New Zealand at the moment.His dinner talk-- well if we could get him to talk about his running days that would be great.
I was going to do a rap untill Simons posting.Now I will wait a bit.
To all you young orienteers. No I dont think your takers but you will have to agree It did get the responce! I am suprised the Simon Jager beat Greg the Flynn.
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Tane Cambridge
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Posted: 12 August 2009, 2:20 PM
Hmmm leave the rapping to Buzz Aldrin I think...or should I say Dr Rendezvous...
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