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GPS use in Orienteering

Neil K Posted: 6 April 2009, 8:08 AM   Brent wrote "Of late I have been using a Garmin GPS watch while orienteeirng" This clearly explains Brent's recent surge in performance. It is quite clear that the watch is extremely useful in turning Brent from an Adventure race navigator to a raging red hot semi favourite orienteer.   darren Posted: 6 April 2009, 8:17 AM   I agree Neil. Clearly Brent is a dirty rotten filthy cheat and he should be disqualified before he starts, along with his geeky GPS.   pcbrent Posted: 6 April 2009, 9:14 AM   Neil, I think the crucial word in the rule is "use". It doesn't prohibit taking any devices as long as they are not used for navigational aid. Agree difficult to enforce, but lets face it so is the embargoed area rule. As mark points out debatable if there is any advantage anyway even if you were using it hard out, especially if you are an expert pace counter like me. This message was edited by pcbrent on 6 April 2009, 5:37 PM   pcbrent Posted: 6 April 2009, 9:33 AM   Found this discussion on Attackpoint. # Posted 2007-04-20 17:52:31 FrankTheTank: I find it kind of ironic that the GPS helps find out where you were long after the fact. Also, I was wondering why the no-GPS rule is not more strictly enforced in orienteering? I realize that it doesn't really help too much, but why have the rule if it's not enforced? In AR, no-GPS rules are taken very seriously. # Posted 2007-04-20 18:32:08 Jagge: IOF rules: 21. Equipment 21.3 During the competition the only navigational aids that competitors may use are the map and control descriptions provided by the organiser, and a compass. What it comes to me, I don't use it, I only wear it. And the way I carry it, it's not a navigational aid, it's just 65g of extra weight: I carry it on my back, inside a little bag/sock (without it's own starp). I can't see the display at all, I can't even push buttons too easily. (BTW, you ge better satelllite reception if you use it like this) # Posted 2007-04-21 01:50:02 ebuckley: I think the reason for the lax rule in orienteering is that GPS doesn't even help a little bit unless you are so bad that you have no chance of placing well. That's not true in AR. AR maps are typically gridded and the coordinates of the checkpoints are given. Heck, you could save 10-20 minutes by simply not plotting the points at all and letting the GPS do the fine nav into the control. Also a GPS is a lot more useful on a vague map at night than on a detailed map during the day. # Posted 2007-04-21 02:10:23 Jagge: That's true. The unit alone doesn't help at much, you need to do some additional cheating to get any real advantage. I think the best way to cheat with current Forerunner models is if one person with early start time runs the course with it first, takes splits (=saves waypoints) at each control. At finish he hands the unit over to a friend who a late start time. He uses the route map & waypoints to navigate or he runs as he normally does, but if he is uncertain he checks the right direction from the unit screen. It's quite easy and straight forward to do with current units. This could be done also in relays with no / only little forking. # Posted 2007-04-21 16:07:02 ebuckley: Wow, I'm a little concerned at how well you've thought that through!   The Map Guy Posted: 6 April 2009, 3:30 PM   I suspect that a GPS watch at the moment is of more use after the event than during it. Unless you have the control locations (waypoints) pre-programmed into the instrument then it will not help much. If you want to do this sort of "orienteering" take up geo-caching. The GPS may tell you you've been in that place before when you are travelling in ever decreasing circles, but by then you're in the "also ran" category in the final placings.   Bryn Posted: 6 April 2009, 9:54 PM   I have used my GPS in all my races but one world ranking event. Im pretty sure most of the good guys still use theirs as they seem to use the quick route program for there blogs. The only place i can see it being helpful is on a butterfly where u have to go back to the same control a few times which i guess could save you some time as you can look on the map function as to where u have run, but other than that i cant see it helping if it did im sure i would run better!!   nick Posted: 7 April 2009, 9:32 AM   I don't like it... the temptation to use it during a race will be too strong. But there is a solution: Make Brent tape it to the back of his head. That goes for any other potentially honest orienteers who want to use it for "analysis".   nick Posted: 7 April 2009, 9:42 AM   mark - i only get pissed at losers who can't rise above trolling. And even then, its really only poor trolling that gets me... Greg's efforts usually make me laugh. At least he puts some effort into it! Anyway, good to see you posting something 1/2way sensible. Good luck with your orienteering bro - you should find it much easier now you've got a flash new gps, eh? Might help you make a comeback? Seems to be working for Brent?   pcbrent Posted: 7 April 2009, 10:43 AM   Sounds like someone is jealous of our fancy GPS watches. You can do some fancy analysis with it. Quickroute can overlay the map and course over google earth. You can then play your route and that of others in 3D. Kind of like Route Gadget but better. http://www.matstroeng.se/quickroute/en/features.php   mick finn Posted: 7 April 2009, 10:54 AM   Yeah, there's a few of those Quickroutes in the last magazine, from Jimbo at Oceania relay and Rocketman Ross in Europe. If my new GPS makes me half as fast as Brent I'll be quietly happy but I doubt it. It's fun on raining runs to know whether you're doing 11 minute or twelve min kms so you can slow down to a more appropriate speed.   idiot Posted: 7 April 2009, 12:37 PM   If Brent tapes it to the back of his head I can then see it when I'm following him and thus steer him in the right direction - that boy has always been a bit wayward.   pcbrent Posted: 7 April 2009, 2:21 PM   <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qDdX2dV8xpnS8chWSGLQ5w?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_GW-9QG9_iWY/SdsJDUCrpKI/AAAAAAAAAM8/AtsvqtS1ZHk/s800/Weiti%20Training.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/pcbrent/JPEGMaps?feat=embedwebsite">JPEG Maps</a></td></tr></table>   pcbrent Posted: 7 April 2009, 2:26 PM   Please disregard above, just trying something.   pcbrent Posted: 7 April 2009, 2:29 PM   For those interested here is a link to some maps with my routes. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qDdX2dV8xpnS8chWSGLQ5w?feat=directlink   Greg Posted: 26 May 2009, 2:28 PM   Brents a cheat http://news.worldofo.com/2009/05/25/new-iof-rules-no-more-gps-watches-on-wre-events/ He should have is Nationals results invalid (they might looked better)