 Jamie
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Posted: 10 June 2008, 9:50 AM
hahahahahaha (I think after years I'm starting to get your sense of humour)
I think you would probably be able to claim royalties but only if the good events are mixed up with token events on shitty farmland maps to milk the market.
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addison
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Posted: 10 June 2008, 10:03 AM
lol
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Michael
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Posted: 10 June 2008, 4:51 PM
For the first afterwork rogaine, see the rogaine website and look back to "4 HVOC Shoestrings 1999": www.mapsport.co.nz/rog/rogaine.html
You're right about it being a spectrum Jamie, and I think orienteering appeals to a much wider group of people by having formats from 90 seconds to 24 hours.
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 12:03 PM
"The start to a rogaine is pretty special to watch because on the gun, teams (with all their packs on), take of in a rush in 20 different directions. If you didnt know what was happening youd think youd arrive to watch some weird loony race"....
...yeah, and?? ;-)
Everytime I hear about the 40 minute pizza delivery I remember some of the best pizza I've ever had was made in Piha by a guy operating out of the campground. Mind you even if he's still there I think he'd have trouble catering for 400 odd people (either meaning works) all at once, and Italian style pizza isn't to everyone's taste.
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onemanfanclub
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 12:16 PM
As far as the discussion as to whether O & R are different things or subsets of the same, I often think of them as like rugbies union & league: the same basic skillset, equipment and playing field, so to an outsider they look like the same game. But the difference in the rules is enough that each puts an emphasis on quite different portions of those physical and technical skills. And while there are many who are good at both and can switch at will there are others who will only excell at one (the Wendell Sailors of the navigation sports, if you like). So whether I describe O & R as 2 sports or 2 variants of one would depend on how familiar the person I'm talking to is with one or the other.
To extend that metaphor beyond breaking point, AR is like Aussie Rules - I can tell what those guys do is bloody impressive but I've got no idea what it is they're up to really!
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pete s
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 12:41 PM
Seems to me there are two clear differences - rogaines are long distance endurance events (versus non-endurance distance for o's), and consequently the maps are larger scale (with all the inherent issues around accuracy that brings), and secondly rogaines are team based, versus individual for o events. I agree with Jenni around the issues to do with map innacuracies and control placement - the recent NZ Rogaine champs was a good example of luck and assumption contributing to how successful a team was - many of the areas shown as white on the map were in fact inpenetrable blackberry and undergrowth - we adapted to that uncertainty by generally taking the "safe" options of tracks (often a long way round in distance, but predictable in terms of speed). Re protesting, I wonder if anyone has ever protested a control being wrong in a rogaine? I'd have argued that control 83 at the NZR champs this year was way out in terms of placement, however we didn't even consider protesting that (despite spending an hour and 50 minutes in the dark looking for it, pacing it out, relocating to different points etc etc). Seems there are two views on these sort of misplacements - one is that of orienteers who expect a control to be accurately placed and marked on the map, the other is of the adventure racer type person, that expects to have to solve the riddle of finding a control that is misplaced and second guessing where the controller may have put it instead (ie they see dealing with this ambiguity as part of the skills needed....). I wonder what is right? Interesting!
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marcusd
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 1:22 PM
Pete - so it was you that spent that long at control 83! I put that control out and I was happy with the placement, but I admit I found the tape marker during the day! It would've been a lot harder at night. You could see it from the track!
AR controls - they should be about right where indicated on the map. The nav is all about how you got there, not spending hours looking for it on the wrong tree.
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marcusd
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 1:35 PM
Sorry - forgot to add. I believe with any nav sport, whether orienteering, rogaines, AR you still need to have the same relevant skill set to be able to make good route choice as well as locate a control when you get to the circle. So effectively the same sport with variations.
And Pete I wasnt casting doubt on your nav ability - it was a tricky control.
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RikiCambridge
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 1:35 PM
For me orienteering is partly about knowing exactly what tree or rock it is on. Route choice makes up the other part.
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RikiCambridge
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 1:35 PM
For me orienteering is partly about knowing exactly what tree or rock it is on. Route choice makes up the other part.
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RikiCambridge
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 1:35 PM
For me orienteering is partly about knowing exactly what tree or rock it is on. Route choice makes up the other part.
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RikiCambridge
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 1:38 PM
internet went slow got over excited on clicking the button, am i just stupid and not able to find a way of deleting the other posts or is there no way to do so?
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Tane Cambridge
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 3:33 PM
Yep
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addison
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Posted: 11 June 2008, 11:49 PM
No way of deleting... caus then when people like Flynn make stupid comments - he'd be able to get away with it if he could just delete it. You have to edit it and delete what you had said, which shows when people realised they were stupid :-P
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runningbeast
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Posted: 12 June 2008, 12:13 AM
Pete said "Seems to me there are two clear differences - rogaines are long distance endurance events (versus non-endurance distance for o's), and consequently the maps are larger scale (with all the inherent issues around accuracy that brings)..... I agree with Jenni around the issues to do with map innacuracies and control placement - the recent NZ Rogaine champs was a good example of luck and assumption contributing to how successful a team was - many of the areas shown as white on the map were in fact inpenetrable blackberry and undergrowth"
Just because a rogaine is on a bigger scale map doesn't mean that it needs to be an inaccurate map. Maps can easily be changed and the inaccuracies you are talking about (Blackberry versus white) should be reflected on the race map. When a setter is scoping the map or placing controls they should be collecting these map corrections (with their larger scale glasses on) and including them on a map - i.e. new tracks, tracks not their, massive vegetation changes, etc.
Likewise with control placement - controls should be placed in areas where the map is accruate or the location of the control is incontestable/uncontestable?. Larger scale in rogaine - so more simple control placement - not the wee knoll hidden in the wee reentrant.
No navigation event, be it rogaine, orienteering or AR should require luck to decide the winning team!
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