 HeadHoncho
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Posted: 11 September 2007, 1:38 AM
Cross me buddy and I never let go.
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robbie
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Posted: 12 September 2007, 2:41 PM
I have just logged on to the topic
Rob Garden you own me a VERY big oppology
I can now see how over time events can be distorted and personal views portrated as being factual.
For a start following, or today I would personnally call it competitive orienteering is part of the our modern sport. The art of dropping or slipping the competitor is now a skill. It happens to each of us at verious times in a competition.At WOC it is even observered on the big screen at the event centre. If you get into a situation where you are with a top competitor should you take a different route choice because you could be accused of following? NO
Now Rob Garden you are so wrong.
I was not trail from control one. This is what really happened.
Firstly --Orienteering was on a global stage at its beginning. The course setting was not what is is today and route choice was limited.
Following as you put it was enevitable. The Swede Johanson caught me at I think control eight. We were together to 13 where there was a problem control. There was about 8 people milling around. The swede spiked it and we were now a group of 10 going through together. This group remained untill the last four controls when the swede and I broke clear of the bunch.
Yes the swede did most of the work wich would apply to the other 9 in the bunch but it is far removed from the RoB Garden version which is a figment of his imagination.
If you are to quote-------GET THE FACTS RIGHT
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robbie
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Posted: 12 September 2007, 2:52 PM
Jamie and Headhoncho
Yes I was national coach with AL I encourged him to watch others around him and to use them to his advantage.I never mentioned following or encouraged it. There is a difference in following and competition with others. Alistair Landels didnt need to follow he was great orienteer and that were far better than his oposition. WHY should he follow. To suggest this Rob G is an insult to his ability which I never doubted.
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Greg
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 12:44 AM
Following is cheating, it should be outlawed not encouraged
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Jamie
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 4:12 AM
Is there actually like a written rule against it?
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Andrew M
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 4:37 AM
Just because you cant keep up with anyone Greg? I hear Piret dropped you like a sack of spuds on the weekend.
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HeadHoncho
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 4:50 AM
Jamie - IOF Rules are:
26.2: In an individual interval start race, competitors shall navigate and run through the terrain independently.
26.3: Except in the case of an accident, obtaining assistance from other runners or providing assistance to other competitors during a competition is forbidden.
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Greg
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 5:05 AM
Does anyone else find Robbie wanting an apology ironic?
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mark
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 5:38 AM
so if you let someone follow you, then you should be dsq
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Paul I
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 9:20 AM
a blast from the past....
There are plenty of guilty followers out there not fessing up. I remember many stories from the 80's when my brother Kevin was living and breathing nothing but orienteering... some of Garden's recollections are not that far fetched. Listing some famous followers I heard about would reveal a surprising number of big names! It is done all in the name of good old healthy competition at the highest level. Some would call it cheating - especially if you were the victom. Like all sports though, top people push the boundaries to get advantages, eventually consistant results show their true ability and form. Often too, until the competitors have been in the sport for a long while they rely on their athletic talents, helping them learn the ropes and get to their potential. Being followed must be flattering to some extent, but tarred by the ultimate plan of using someone at times in order to beat them. It does get messy if following occurs in trials. For following to be accepted, right or wrong, guilty runners would do well not too deny their actions if caught out. (not at all pointing at anyone here)
On coaching; Val and robbie were the ones reponsible for introducing and helping Kevin Ireland to Orienteering back when the taught at Tokoroa High back in the day, from memory their school was right up there at the top along with Putaruru High coached by John & Robyn Davies and Mike Grayburn. John Mote was another great runner/coach from that area when Pinelands were a very strong club. I don't recall following to be part of training though!
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nick
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 9:35 AM
yeah! classic dummy spit back there. awesome!
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addison
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Posted: 13 September 2007, 9:49 AM
I would follow if I could keep up, but hey everyone knows I am storing some energy at the moment in case I get really lost!
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ole codger
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Posted: 17 September 2007, 4:37 PM
Just tune in to this little debate.Incidents of following I,ve come across over the years. At a Woodhill social event, mass start for all men.Elites are quickly ahead across open land into low forest with a fast veteran in pursuit with map rolled up. Elites make mistake and come back in pack with fast vet with map still rolled up in behind. Slower vets who spike control observe it all happening. Fast vet is dropped by pack and dnf. At NZ Relay champs South Island. A vet observes his rival of day before take off in open country on the 2nd leg, starts soon after, and takes off like a rabbit to catch him. The setter of the day observes what has happen and informs all spectators that the first runner is on a different grade and course. The follower finishes well back. Another NZ relay in Manawatu. Vet is standing at the start line and observes the control discriptions on back of maps of competitors either side of him and realizes that the first half are the same as his. At spectator control he observed not to be reading his map as he passes by in pursuit. Later brags about it to everyone who will listen. At another NZ champs. Short distance chasing start event, myself and two others start within 10 secs, of each other. In a situation like this there will always be a bit following. MW soon establishes the lead, with 2nd starter hot on his heals with me struggling to keep contact, but after control 4 I observe them running off in a strange angle through the low Tekapo pines. I realize that this is my chance to take the race and spike the control
I can't hear them and quickly get away. I loss 20secs on long leg with control in clearing and get away as MW with follower still hot on his heals burst into clearing. An area of poor mapping confuses me and MW and follower quickly catch me. They stop and scratch their
heads as well. MW goes off to a nearby road to relocate and companion goes with him.I realise where I am get to the the control 20-30m ahead and the running order of the other two is still the same.Its all on to the last control but MW catches me and is too fast in the finish shute.What happened to the third runner? He lost his glasses in low branchs and had to stop to find them. Well the third placegetter was honest and admitted his tactic was to stick with MW AND BEAT HIM DOWN THE FINISH SHUTE. Orienteering is a great running sport. . If you are running with another as it often happens, you must keep contact with the map and terrian and be ready to capitalize on the others mistake. I remember in the the Aust. Champs one year Dave Lotty caught me two controls from home. I knew I had a good run and if I kept leading I would place second. Instead I let him go ahead and do his own navigating and as it was he made a paralel error which enabled me to get to the last control out of sight and bolt for it to the finish. Unfortuatly he only lost 1-2 min and still beat me.B....r. Bob Alison was to come in later and win. Cunning running the sport is called and I love it for the close competition it can give and I don't give really give B....r if I come Ist or sixth so long as I have given it my best shot AND ENJOYED IT!
No one expects competitors do anything deterrent to the leg he is running,just to avoid other orienteers but he or she must read their map.There is an art in running with others and learning how to use them but there is no room in the sport for blatant no map reading following!
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addison
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Posted: 19 September 2007, 2:19 AM
Didn't even need to do any cheeky tricks on Saturday... check out what I put on my attackpoint below:
Neil caught me going to #8 and so I just kept running and doing my thing. The section from #9 through to like #14 was pretty neat, I was finding it hard to read my map.
So then there was Neil, Darren me and Dougal. Neil, Darren and I end up going right. Dougal goes left. Dougal gets lost. Dougal loses time. Dougal made the wrong decision.
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